I don't think Trento is all serve and Juantorena, for example I think that Rapha makes a huuge difference (about that, i suggest the article written by Jack Sintini on Dallari Volley). And Trento has a very low level of errors, and I think this one is their first strenght, not making any gift and using all the gift the other team makes.
But it's also true that vs a team like Macerata the difference can be made, in effect, with a serve run.
I mean, Macerata has the skill to limitate Trento strenght (or to use its vs Trento, e.g. the serve), so in this case it can actually be a good serve run that makes the difference! (and in effect it happened!)
Considering that Juantorena is the best server of the league and imo also of the world, right now, he is the main "alarm", but we saw that also Brugshtaler was important, like in the match of the italian championship Stokr was, or like Savani was for Macerata during the first set.
Probably Macerata stressed to much this point (stopping Juantorena's serve run), at least in their minds, so as soon they failed in it they got nervous...
BTW, in this period Macerata shows they can be truly focused only for 2 sets and half in a match.
Well, at least this time they were able to focus on the right sets ?
BTW, of course I know that it isn't end AT ALL, I didn't think "ok, now they'll be in the final4 for sure" not even for a second, but I'm absolutly glad for the victory itself and for how it developed ?
BTW, today Kovar replaced Parodi well (damn Simo, I thought you moved on with your amazing performances during the final4!), but he was moony in serve, he did or errors (mostly) or aces xD
Also Monopoli replaced Travica well, with good personality!
But I guess that my MVP is Podrascanin, even if I loved Savani and Igor determination.
i'm afraid it's not! "Una rondine non fa primavera/a swallow doesn't make a spring" (have no idea whether this italian idiom makes any sense translated into english this way).
BTW, this and the final of Italian Cup matches made me so mad about the fact that there will be no chanche to see both team in the final4 ?
But yes, I'm "a bit" partial ?
Few stats, if you need a translation don't mind to ask ? (I'm in a god mood ?)
about Lube attack--> Grazie a Monopoli la Lube passa dal 30% del 1° set, al 48% del 2° per poi arrivare al 59% (3° set), 62% (4° set) e addirittura 69% (5° set). Da rimarcare sono anche le prestazioni di Savani (70% in attacco, 1 muro e 4 ace), Stankovic (64% in attacco e 3 muri) e Podrascanin (77% in attacco, 3 muri). In casa trentina i migliori sono il solito Juantorena (62% in attacco e 4 ace) ed un ritrovato Kaziyski (61% in attacco, 2 ace).
I read somewhere that Birarelli suffered from the beginnings of pneumonia (like me right now :< )... no surprise if he didn't play at hs best (i don't know how he played actually 'cause i scarsely watched the match).
Are all of you gonna keep saying this now? Okay he needs rest, so as Savani for example. Played as many matches or even more, because:
a) he got to final round of ECh
b) he played at WC in Japan
and before some freak will try to reply for these points don't compare friendly matches in Italy to 11 matches of WC in Japan. Even those I think two matches in Serie A when Kovar played instead of him, still Savani played more.
And Savani is older. So as you see there are a lot of players who need break. Okay we all know Rado is makes him play every match and that's sucks. But how many times we gonna say that?
I think it would be great that trentino doesn't reach the finals.. because if they do you know already who's gonna win. Now as it looks so far with Macerata,Zenit,Lokomotiv and offcourse Skra I don't know who will be the winner.. Zenit is the favorite, but also Skra is a great team. and you may not underrated Macerata.. I think Lokomotiv would be 4th.. but places 1,2 and 3 would be very close ?
"he didn't play at hs best (i don't know how he played actually 'cause i scarsely watched the match)"
In fact Birarelli didn't play ? I was on court only for a serve run and to raise (is it the correct word?) the block once or twice.
What I meant was that with Bira probably Trento will be able to do a better job in block.
@champion: you where honest and said that you would like Stoytchev to think about Bulgaria squad destiny, and you also admit that it was quite selfish, an thanks for the sincerity...
But let me say... WHAT? This is being professional for you?! Putting Bulgaria interests upon Trento while he is training Trento???!!! Now Stoytchev MUST think in Trento prospective, not in Bulgaria prospective!!! Right now he have to forget he is Bulgaria coach!
That's why I agree on the fact that coaches shouldn't train at the same time a NT team and a club: because imo it's impossiblr to focus 100% on both, even if you are the most committed coach in the world, because there will be moments when you have to stay with the club and let the NT with someone else or viceversa (e.g.: Stoytchev came later to Bulgaria because Trento reach the V-day; Stoytchev came later to Trento because Bulgaria was playing the ECh); and because you can risk to put one team's needs upon the other team, and that cant' be considered a good way to work (but I don't think Stoytchev is doing that)
Zyta if you're going that way, comparing loads of games that might affect on players' exhaustion I think there's one thing you're missing- the time. Savani joined his NT in 2009, focusing only on Serie A till then (well that's true he improved very late), while Kaziyski started full national-club regime like 5 years before. Therefore your example is quite irrelevant.
@march: isn't too much important those 6 match.. because in November Italy (travica, savani,, ecc.. and Omrcen too whit his NT) was engaged whit World Cup but Osmany, Matey and Raphael were in Trento to keep training ?
Of course I'm not trying to defend Kaziyski, he's a professional so that's his problem. There are so many class players that carried much more than Matey did during their careers.
i don't want forgot those match... i'm just saying that Trento played 6 more match but Italy played 11 more matches, so if we were tired Italian plyer should be more then us
Zyta, I already looked there, but I guess the stats have not been updated yet.
what stats you talk about? Stats from this match? I have seen them, so yes, they are there.
But let me say... WHAT? This is being professional for you?! Putting Bulgaria interests upon Trento while he is training Trento???!!! Now Stoytchev MUST think in Trento prospective, not in Bulgaria prospective!!! Right now he have to forget he is Bulgaria coach!
It's not exactly like that. At this level if someone is coach in the club and NT must think about both. He can't say "okay screw NT right now, you play everything" and then be surprised Matey is crawling on court. Also he needs to think about guys who plays in the other clubs, keep in touch with their coaches etc etc. Of course he has some guys for him to care about this, but that's how it looks right now. And it's not always perfect, but there need to be cooperation between clubs, otherwise players will be in trouble.
Besides come on, is Matey so necessary on court right now? Before Raylight will come and throw stats in my face (BTW do you know that most titled team in this decade - Brazil - doesn't care that much about stats like Italians/Bulgarians/Russians/Poles? And look when this tactic took them ?), even he must admit that Matey is not shining bomber right now and he calmly can spend some matches on a bench to get some rest, while Della Lunga will beat Ravenna for example. I'm not saying give him a rest against Macerata (but seeing his performance on Sunday I would say why not), but weaker teams yes. Osmany and Stokr can handle that, while Dore will just help in reception.
Michal I get your point, but as you said there many players who carried much more. And for example in Brazil they play twice a week + they have to traveling long distances. Do you think anyone there complain or fans crying because of those poor guys? No. If they cry it's now only about Giba, because there is a risk he may not be able to play Olympics.
It was not related to you, i have understood what you mean. It was Zyta not to appoint these Matchs.
okay 5 matches of club champs, 1 of supercup. Still 6 < 11, got it, dude?
There are more interesting things to be discussed in this topic for sure :-)
really? ? so why you started? But I should get use to that in this vball world some topics will never end (even we have said everything, there is nothing new to add, but we will still discuss some points).
Short, quick list of TOP6 never ending stories:
- Kaziyski and taking rest
- Kaziyski and being god
- Bulgaria and being top class team
- Bulgaria against rest of the world or Bulgaria as a victim of cheaters
- Rado and being bad/good coach
- Simon and being the best
Then some topics which are mentioned here, but they are not such popular like on webforums of countries they are about.
Poland:
- Wlazly and NT
Brazil:
- Ricardo vs. Bruno
Russia:
- Russia and mentality
Italy:
- Italy and behaviour on court
Forgive me if I missed any point. I don't have anything in my mind about the rest.
"It's not exactly like that. At this level if someone is coach in the club and NT must think about both"
Of course it is inevitable, that's why I wrote that I disagree with being coaches of NT and club. Because it's impossible to avoid thinking about both teams, but that should be the most professional things to do, imo.
Fo example I honestly apreciate what Berruto is doing: beside the fact that he has a lot of time to watch - also live - the matches with his guys (and his opponents ?, he also spends time with the younger (1996-95 ish), travelling all around Italy and joining the Regional Day of each region to watch their best seletion and to program how to develop our volleyball.
BTW, Zyta, in the last match vs Macerata Matey played quite well ?
Zyta is right about the need of Matey to rest. I don't compare him to other players, more or less heavy loaded with matches, because first it is irelevant from rational point of view - if he is tired, someone else's freshnes is not an argument not to give him a rest, and second - he gets the toughest points and spikes hard, which is much more tiring than low block-defense oriented technical spikes of normal spikers.
If Matey Kaziyski is the God of volleyball, Zyta is an atheist, screaming "I don't believe in you" in his face, wearing copper armour in the middle of great lightning storm ?
God? He can barely be called an angel, his powers are really limited. With those limitations the best teams would put him in square for subs. He's okay, can be useful sometimes...
if he is tired, someone else's freshnes is not an argument not to give him a rest
did I say he does not deserve to have some rest? No. He does. And I feel sorry for him. I really do. But talking all the time only about him taking rest like no one other need it too is just making him such a poorly victim. And boring.
he gets the toughest points and spikes hard, which is much more tiring than low block-defense oriented technical spikes of normal spikers.
just like mentioned Savani doesn't care such points. No, no one basically. Only Matey cares about these actions and points. In every existed team maybe, huh?
PS. Volleyball is not a simple game. It takes time & dedication in order to understand it properly. Why cant you (pro fans) help us with that? :-) .... or at least help me, please!
hahahaha. I will try do my best.
BTW, Zyta, in the last match vs Macerata Matey played quite well ?
this is what I'm talking about. I'm saying during this season - WHOLE SEASON - he is shining like before. And you must admit that (I'm not talking to you Ray). And then someone is talking about ONE MATCH. I don't care. He played better, okay, sometimes he will. But three days earlier he played terrible. Which shows he has ups and downs, while in the past he was quite stable at this point.
PS. We becoming masters of TOP6 topics. Discussing two of them in one conversation, hell yeah.
I see you got the amnesia. Back in the days when Trento were about average team with Andre Nascimento, Andre Heller, Stefan Hubner, Marco Meoni, Michal Winiarski, they achieved nothing. Zero, niente, nada. Out of the midst of Moscow, Radostin Stoychev and Matey Kaziyski came on Italian ground. Vladimir Nikolov flied from Japan where he was big. From Piacenza came Nikola Grbic. Trento won their first scudetto having no traditions at all. Later Vladimir Nikolov arrived in Cuneo along with Grbic and they became the second power in Serie A1. Winiarski went to Skra, Jauntorena came. Trento didn't stop winning cups and titles. In the beginning they had very simple strategy - Matey scoring the tough points or deciding the match with series of aces. When that became insufficient, the Dark Knight appeared with his serve. When that became insufficient, they started defending spikes, started loading the opposite position with tough points more often and crushed Cuneo. Now that is too insufficient, so what will be next? Whatever is it, Trento would win nothing without Radostin and Matey and much less without Nikolov, Grbic or Juantorena. This is the best team in the world. Other teams can only dream about to capture the contracts of Osmany or Matey. They are nothing special, right?
Out of the midst of Moscow, Radostin Stoychev and Matey Kaziyski came on Italian ground.
Ja, ja and saved this ground from scarcity. Got it.
Trento won their first scudetto having no traditions at all.
As far as I know, from watching vball, players play and winning, not traditions.
HCLT is right. You are totally desperate. You have no answer for my arguments, so you brought me shortcut of Trento's history, which is not the point right now, as we don't talk about Matey being special (gotta add this to my list and change it to TOP7). Moving, totally.
I didn't think we are arguing. "Other players are tired too" was not an argument. I agreed with you that he doesn't show his best this season and needs some rest. About the toughest points, look what passes he got in Italian Cup final after bad reception and why exactly he had so low efficiency in attack. This is old style Trentino, Trentino gives much more responsibility to other players now and Matey doesn't score 30+ points since the match with Olympiacos as guests. Still spike by spike attempt he is loaded like Zaytsev in Roma, not like Savani in Macerata
Still spike by spike attempt he is loaded like Zaytsev in Roma, not like Savani in Macerata
you've got to be kidding me right now. Zaytsev when it comes to choose most loaded player in the team during the match has no opponents at this point. He passes most of the balls and spike most of the balls and there is nothing to compare, because as you said Matey has some support right now. Besides I did not say he is in bad form because he doesn't score 30 points per match. But again we coming back to how you see this sport and I don't want to discuss this point.
I'd really like to say something
I had nothing against team Bulgaria,Kaziyski or Trentino before an army of moaning bulgarians appeared on this website.
they're so annoying that now every time when i read here the words "matey" or "bulgaria" i can't but try to restrain a vomitting reflex, and i bet i'm not the only one.
bulgarians, i don't know what your aim is, but do you realize you do nothing but get everyone around here against bulgaria?
PLEASE stop...volleyball-movies needs a rest from your moanings as much as Matey Kaziyski needs rest from court
Now, off-handedly does somebody really believe that Macerata could beat Trentino and go to next round of CL? Hopefully i Believe ?)) Regards for everyone ?
Since Bulgarians are running the show here, kate, we will do whatever we like to do if we do not break the rules of the site and nobody will tell us what to do. You are not obliged to read our posts. Do I hate Poland NT because there are so many fans here, talking all the time about the players? No. Do I hate Osmany for stealing the show? No. So you have no excuse for your feelings of hero of Dostoevsky
Something else to say: I am tired of listening moaning about our moaning about Bulgaria and Matey. We are free to speak whatever we want if we don't break the rules and the man or woman that can stop me talking hasn't been born yet. Hate me or love me, watch me while I roll ;)
raylight,
i know that any my respond to you with cytating and stuff will be a waste of my time, so i won't care about it.
and besides, i am way too well bred to tell you what you are.
instead, i strongly recommend you to hire a psychoanalyst, very experienced and expensive one, to deal with your self-steem problems, which, as far as i can see, are very serious (evidentially, go from your childhood).
if a good specialist won't help you, you're desperate
I don't care what "people" think. All "people" answer to arguments are insults like kate who never ever said any thank you for my work on Russian volley uploads and I will not say you, kate what you are, because, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Think what you want, say what you want, behave as nature told you to behave, live you life. Just don't mess with my rights.
Zyta, outside of this forum I have a real life with real people who take me seriously enough. Why should I want anything here? I am number one in this site, this is the most serious you can get.
P.S. Only stupid people say that the words of other people are crap if they don't agree with them. You can't be smart and lack manners, because if you never doubt in yourself you can't be smart. The question is why do you want to be perceived as stupid?
kate who never ever said any thank you for my work on Russian volley uploads
since when anyone should be grateful? Maybe she should send you flowers as well?
Congratulations dude! You’ve maybe reached the lowest point of your turbulent and desperate career on v-movies. Calling me stupid makes you feel better? I hope so because you seem to have this urge of battling against everyone. You and your quotes out of place, your “friends” found by convenience as they get rejected as you are, your crazy attempts to impress with a knowledge you lacks… Keep calling me stupid, it’ll make a huge difference in my life and in my participation here.
So you’re number one on v-movies? Wow! Do you wanna a medal? Another flowers? Maybe you want your nickname in green, as you already complained about that, which is pathetic actually? Please, give us some break from your whining and behave like a man, starting by treating girls decently. Neither Kate nor I have given you a reason to be so rude.
You said you have a life outside here… I don’t give a damn too, but it’s hard to believe now when you brought the subject. I remember last Christmas, when you were posting like a freak, but said at some point you had just finished watching a movie with your family. Ray, you had been posting something every five minutes, some of those posts were really long ones. It’s hard to believe you exist outside here, but I don't care anyway, just saying this once you mentioned that while talking to me.
You can stop using YouTube videos to mock those who oppose to you. We all know you’re just copying once again a guy you really want to be, but he’s so much smarter than you.
Friedrichshafen vs. Kazan, that's an easy guess. With Venno (and even more important Böhme as middle) there would've been a slight chance for the Germans due to that stupid golden set rule. During the pool stage they defeated Kazan. The Russians suffer from Volkov's absence, young Gutsalyuk can't close this gap. Regarding Friedrichshafen's current situation, playing without both opposites and putting a starter from the middle position on the opposite instead, makes the whole thing an impossible mission.
Izmir vs. Novosibirsk, a little bit more difficult. There's no doubt about the Russians being stronger, individually and as a team. But since the golden set rule gives the hometeam such a huge advantage, Izmir still has a chance. They won all matches at home so far, which should give them some confidence, even though they didn't host any topteam. Agamez and Joao Bravo having a good day will be essential.
Novosibirsk already played in Turkey during the pool stage, crushing Fenerbace 3-0. They are a good example for the new russian mentality. A very good setter along with fast wingspikers and Sanchez as opposite are hard to beat for every team left in the competition. If they manage to advance to the F4, which they should, they really can make a run and cause a surprise.
Trentino vs. Macerata, the top match. The recent matches between those teams gave a good impression what's gonna happen: If Macerata is able to put on pressure with their serves, what they will definitely try, and don't start to choke as seen during the italian cup, they can win the match. In this case it will be for Juantorena and Stokr to keep Trentino in the match. If Macerata doesn't play on their limit, we will see a blowout.
In case of a golden set, it's hard to make a prediction. Both team proved to be able to win a tiebreak. Still, I would bet on Trentino in this case.
I have a plan to go to Łódź, but I need Macerata there...i saw Trento and i want to see other team...so i keep my finger crossed for Lube... but this solution could be really hard
So, this year one semifinal will be like the last final!
Arkas was a big surprise to me, congratulation!
The fact that Trento won can't actually be a surprise, but I honestly thought that Macerata had a really consistent chance to get the final4... Unofrtunally it seems they wasted it ?
But I'm really glad that there will be again an italian team to cheer for, and I'm ready to support the impressive and huge Trento in this (not really new ?) adventure!
After all, only the first playoff6 match was like I expected...
Remember that if Lokomotiv has won , Belchatów would play against Trentino , so it is not thaks to our federation but also thanks to luck and Arkas. It was known a long time ago so I am surprised that you are so shocked ?
Well then, CEV would have to move Final4. I don't say that I like this law, but if it's law, I can't see why some team coming to the country where the law is valid, should be excluded from observing it. Law is the same for everyone and there shouldn't be any exceptions.
No, marchst, the law was valid then too, but as far as I know Zaksa didn't inform Trento about it, so they came with their usual T-shirts and played in them.
I personally don't like that law and I think it's stupid. But I also don't understand why some team should be excluded from it. I imagine that when foreigners come to your country, you expect them to abide by your country's law? I do because I respect other countries' laws whenever I visit them, even if I think they're weird or useless.
If the law is there and must be done always observe,that centers the Zaska that did not warn you.
You don't have other meshes ?games with those from your workout.
Do not share the fact that today no ,a month ago yes!
Marchst, I'm sorry but I really don't understand what you mean. I don't mean to offend you but your English is hard to read.
Is Zaksa Polish government or Polish court to change the rules and set the new standards? I don't think so. It was their mistake and I don't see a reason why now, when the organizers remember about the law and warn all the teams about it, it should be overlooked because Zaksa made a mistake. That's just ridiculous. And I'm very serious, believe me.
Plus I really hope that you're not saying all this because it's Trento that the law concerns most. I would like to believe you would protest so strongly if we discussed some other team here.
I, on the other hand, say that every team has to abide by this law and I would still say that if any Polish team was in a similar situation in another country.
That's it, I said everything I had to say about that. I'm not going to change my opinion.
Congrats to Zenit and Russian fans(mostly,kate really ?) ? Max was simply great today!
Yeah,Kjeldhor,Rafa was completely outplayed by Valerio today...I'll take solace in the thought that this have made my favorite Italian on Earth happy ?
I don't know what you guys mean by Osmany being good or whatever,he looked totally checked out.Bad decision to announce his departure so close to the F4...very bad decision.
To me they lost the match when they let Zenit come back from 14:10 to 16:14 in the 2nd set...so careless...I didn't expect them to act like that - at times it looked like they didn't take it seriously ? Also,not even one ace!!!Seriously?!
Well,such dominance couldn't have gone on forever - I mean it's not good for the sport and all... ?
Trentino really strong team, and they showed it in the 1 set, this set was very difficult both physically and emotional, i suspect Trentiono didn't restored after it as quickly as Zenit did. Very happy for Zenit tomorrow we will have really interesting match between Skra and Zenit. Don't know what to do with Kurek, i love him too much as to be a fan against him ?
Good luck Trentiono in a fight for 3 place .
Oh,can't believe I forgot - Sivo?!?!Who would have thunk it? lol
I've said some pretty bad things about the guy in the past,but he impressed me tonight.Tomorrow we'll see if this was a one time thing or he'll shine just as bright against SKRA ?
@handan - Osmany can't be singled out and blamed for that loss.Too many things went wrong today...
I guess,so much for a perfect season,ha?May be Trento finally couldn't handle the nerves?
If Russian NT players play consistently like that outside Zenit /that was Russian NT, Khtey was replaced, Muserskiy absence wasn't felt/ Russia will dominate for long years outside the ECH
Oh,qwerty,always late to the party...that sponsor talk died awhile ago...
And of course in football and f1 sponspors paid much more money.
That was the whole point - that volleyball needs to lure in sponsors,not push them away and not being able to represent them at such a commercial tournament as F4 is not gonna win you any points with them,right?
Yeah,I think Ferrari can manage without a sponsor or two.As of right now not a lot of volleyball teams can say the same.HOWEVER,I respect the law.I would have said the same thing if Macerata or any other team had qualified for the F4 instead of "poor,hurt Trento".
Kisses
Congratulations to Kazan! Alekno is really a great coach, Vermiglio apart from some innacurate sets was unbelievable, middles were unstoppable and blocked us many times. Wlazly and Kurek made too many mistakes in the important parts and Falasca was just weak/predictable at setting.
Great final! Great play! Great day for Zenit! Skra very powerfull, i'll say that it is on the same level with Zenit, so Zenit was more lucky this everning that Skra was, as the result ----> best in Europe ^_^
@Andrut
Zawodnicy nie mogą poprosić o challange czy było po bloku. Ale jak wypowiadali sie redaktorzy po pomeczowym studio mówili, że sędziowi mieli odprawe przed meczem w sprawie challengu i mogli sędziowie sprawdzić czy było po bloku w sytuacji gdy była piłka setowa albo meczowa.
Congrats to Zenit. From all teams they deserved the most for this victory. They eliminated big Trento after perfect game and today didn't gave up even in the most difficult moments. In the end of tie-break Vermiglio showed why he's called great setter. Skra showed mental weakness in some moments and they made wrong tactic choices. So I don't think Zenit won because of more luck, but because this team was better. And agree with you about MVP for Alekno, he rocks?
Of course it was block's touch in the last action, but Skra had own chances before and now the refs mistakes coudn't be excuse. It was so close, but players should blame only themselves for lost.
Both teams made great show, it was beautiful final.
...Rafa was completely outplayed by Valerio today...I'll take solace in the thought that this have made my favorite Italian on Earth happy
Are you talking about me, dear? ? Anyway, you're spot on !! I'm really happy for Valerio, he deserved a huge reward for the great setter he is (although very underestimated on many occasions).
Congrats to Zenit!To be honest they played below my expectations,but still won deservedly ?
Alekno...love this man,he was 50% of the team tonight!!!
Hilarious decoration...lol
@pearl - Who else could I be talking about? ? Congrats on your guy getting an individual award!I guess you could say I was one of the Valerio skeptics,because I didn't expect him to play this way before the F4,but he really did a wonderful job ?
A note on the last action - What was the point of the whole "challenge system" if not to avoid situations like this one?Semi-final between Russia and Serbia from ECH 2011 all over again...It's unfortunate that that's the way SKRA had to lose in front of their fans,but they had a lot of chances to win the match before and didn't take advantage of them.
Just want to say that the atmosphere was great!And not just at the final,but at all 4 games this weekend!I don't think there was a match with less than 10 000 spectators ?
Referees could check block touch in last actions in sets, but they didn't do it. I don't know why.
i don't know polish rules, but in this final4 the FIVB say that the challenge can be asked only for checking:
· the ball is in or out the court;
· the ball touched or not the shaft/antennas (dunno the exactly word);
· invasion;
· if a player walked on 9 or 3rd meteor line;
@Kjeldhor referees could check that sistuation cause the ball was last one (matchball) and after the game they are talking in Polsat about challange rule when the ball is last (setball or matchball).
BTW: Anybody knows that Italian league for the first time in history doesn't have any club in European final (Champions league, CEV Cup or Challenge cup) since 1980/81 (first year of challenge cup competition)
@Kjeldhor In Final Four referees could check block touch. Before matches, at the briefing referees was decided that if in the last action set or match will be some doubt, referees will be able to check block touch.
It will not change the fact that both teams played well, but Zenit was a little bit better and deserved the win.
@Kjeldhor They had doubts. Immediately after the action one of the referees showed a block out and even went to the secound referee to consult this action.
No longer about the results because the Zenit won really deserved, but the referees were the only ones able to check this and again acted as the all-knews-gods
on the 3 last main competitions (World league,world cup,Champions league) Maxim won titles (MVP, best attacker, best server,best blocker..) That prove that he's really now the BEST OPPOSITE in the Wolrd. Congratulation for him on his birthday !
Maxim is the most complete opposite in the world, insane serve, wall block, good reception and defense skills, but when it comes to attack Milijkovic is the best, he is unstoppable /words of Vladimir Alekno/. He overcomes tough situations on consistent matter, always finding holes in the tactic of the opponent. Maxim Mikhaylov is MVP, because his serve is big part of the success of his teams and his block and reception add a lot too, kind of Juantorena in OPP version
Nevertheless, the match has been the best final since several years. Great actions, fantastic emotions, and very high level. It's a pity that finished by a mistake of refferees.
Volleybox Kadın
Volleybox Plaj
http://www.cev.lu/Competition-Area/Statistics.aspx?ID=548
Big mistake thinking that Trento is only server
About Statistics, Trentino didn't play at their max in Champions League except vs Kozle
Does not change my speech.
The match will be fought ,it will be another battle.
But it's also true that vs a team like Macerata the difference can be made, in effect, with a serve run.
I mean, Macerata has the skill to limitate Trento strenght (or to use its vs Trento, e.g. the serve), so in this case it can actually be a good serve run that makes the difference! (and in effect it happened!)
Considering that Juantorena is the best server of the league and imo also of the world, right now, he is the main "alarm", but we saw that also Brugshtaler was important, like in the match of the italian championship Stokr was, or like Savani was for Macerata during the first set.
Probably Macerata stressed to much this point (stopping Juantorena's serve run), at least in their minds, so as soon they failed in it they got nervous...
Wonderful payback ?
BTW, in this period Macerata shows they can be truly focused only for 2 sets and half in a match.
Well, at least this time they were able to focus on the right sets ?
BTW, of course I know that it isn't end AT ALL, I didn't think "ok, now they'll be in the final4 for sure" not even for a second, but I'm absolutly glad for the victory itself and for how it developed ?
I wish such a match next game again.. And the better should win!
Congrats for Lube!
Also Monopoli replaced Travica well, with good personality!
But I guess that my MVP is Podrascanin, even if I loved Savani and Igor determination.
i'm afraid it's not! "Una rondine non fa primavera/a swallow doesn't make a spring" (have no idea whether this italian idiom makes any sense translated into english this way).
But yes, I'm "a bit" partial ?
about Lube attack--> Grazie a Monopoli la Lube passa dal 30% del 1° set, al 48% del 2° per poi arrivare al 59% (3° set), 62% (4° set) e addirittura 69% (5° set). Da rimarcare sono anche le prestazioni di Savani (70% in attacco, 1 muro e 4 ace), Stankovic (64% in attacco e 3 muri) e Podrascanin (77% in attacco, 3 muri). In casa trentina i migliori sono il solito Juantorena (62% in attacco e 4 ace) ed un ritrovato Kaziyski (61% in attacco, 2 ace).
Pity for us, congratulations to Macerata, Thursday will be a war
.
we hope to see a great show and win the strongest
Will Be happy Meyer and all the CEV had excluded Trento from F4,i Thursday aspect, however.
And I think his a huge mistake to think that they're ended ?
Trento is tired and wound ,but still alive.
just like Macerata doesn't.
cev.lu
Are all of you gonna keep saying this now? Okay he needs rest, so as Savani for example. Played as many matches or even more, because:
a) he got to final round of ECh
b) he played at WC in Japan
and before some freak will try to reply for these points don't compare friendly matches in Italy to 11 matches of WC in Japan. Even those I think two matches in Serie A when Kovar played instead of him, still Savani played more.
And Savani is older. So as you see there are a lot of players who need break. Okay we all know Rado is makes him play every match and that's sucks. But how many times we gonna say that?
In fact Birarelli didn't play ? I was on court only for a serve run and to raise (is it the correct word?) the block once or twice.
What I meant was that with Bira probably Trento will be able to do a better job in block.
@champion: you where honest and said that you would like Stoytchev to think about Bulgaria squad destiny, and you also admit that it was quite selfish, an thanks for the sincerity...
But let me say... WHAT? This is being professional for you?! Putting Bulgaria interests upon Trento while he is training Trento???!!! Now Stoytchev MUST think in Trento prospective, not in Bulgaria prospective!!! Right now he have to forget he is Bulgaria coach!
That's why I agree on the fact that coaches shouldn't train at the same time a NT team and a club: because imo it's impossiblr to focus 100% on both, even if you are the most committed coach in the world, because there will be moments when you have to stay with the club and let the NT with someone else or viceversa (e.g.: Stoytchev came later to Bulgaria because Trento reach the V-day; Stoytchev came later to Trento because Bulgaria was playing the ECh); and because you can risk to put one team's needs upon the other team, and that cant' be considered a good way to work (but I don't think Stoytchev is doing that)
The Trentinovolley played 5 games in the world championship for club and 1 in Supercup,Macerata no.
There are many players tired at this point in the season,in some is more evident.
what stats you talk about? Stats from this match? I have seen them, so yes, they are there.
It's not exactly like that. At this level if someone is coach in the club and NT must think about both. He can't say "okay screw NT right now, you play everything" and then be surprised Matey is crawling on court. Also he needs to think about guys who plays in the other clubs, keep in touch with their coaches etc etc. Of course he has some guys for him to care about this, but that's how it looks right now. And it's not always perfect, but there need to be cooperation between clubs, otherwise players will be in trouble.
Besides come on, is Matey so necessary on court right now? Before Raylight will come and throw stats in my face (BTW do you know that most titled team in this decade - Brazil - doesn't care that much about stats like Italians/Bulgarians/Russians/Poles? And look when this tactic took them ?), even he must admit that Matey is not shining bomber right now and he calmly can spend some matches on a bench to get some rest, while Della Lunga will beat Ravenna for example. I'm not saying give him a rest against Macerata (but seeing his performance on Sunday I would say why not), but weaker teams yes. Osmany and Stokr can handle that, while Dore will just help in reception.
Michal I get your point, but as you said there many players who carried much more. And for example in Brazil they play twice a week + they have to traveling long distances. Do you think anyone there complain or fans crying because of those poor guys? No. If they cry it's now only about Giba, because there is a risk he may not be able to play Olympics.
okay 5 matches of club champs, 1 of supercup. Still 6 < 11, got it, dude?
really? ? so why you started? But I should get use to that in this vball world some topics will never end (even we have said everything, there is nothing new to add, but we will still discuss some points).
Short, quick list of TOP6 never ending stories:
- Kaziyski and taking rest
- Kaziyski and being god
- Bulgaria and being top class team
- Bulgaria against rest of the world or Bulgaria as a victim of cheaters
- Rado and being bad/good coach
- Simon and being the best
Then some topics which are mentioned here, but they are not such popular like on webforums of countries they are about.
Poland:
- Wlazly and NT
Brazil:
- Ricardo vs. Bruno
Russia:
- Russia and mentality
Italy:
- Italy and behaviour on court
Forgive me if I missed any point. I don't have anything in my mind about the rest.
Of course it is inevitable, that's why I wrote that I disagree with being coaches of NT and club. Because it's impossible to avoid thinking about both teams, but that should be the most professional things to do, imo.
Fo example I honestly apreciate what Berruto is doing: beside the fact that he has a lot of time to watch - also live - the matches with his guys (and his opponents ?, he also spends time with the younger (1996-95 ish), travelling all around Italy and joining the Regional Day of each region to watch their best seletion and to program how to develop our volleyball.
BTW, Zyta, in the last match vs Macerata Matey played quite well ?
If Matey Kaziyski is the God of volleyball, Zyta is an atheist, screaming "I don't believe in you" in his face, wearing copper armour in the middle of great lightning storm ?
did I say he does not deserve to have some rest? No. He does. And I feel sorry for him. I really do. But talking all the time only about him taking rest like no one other need it too is just making him such a poorly victim. And boring.
just like mentioned Savani doesn't care such points. No, no one basically. Only Matey cares about these actions and points. In every existed team maybe, huh?
hahahaha. I will try do my best.
this is what I'm talking about. I'm saying during this season - WHOLE SEASON - he is shining like before. And you must admit that (I'm not talking to you Ray). And then someone is talking about ONE MATCH. I don't care. He played better, okay, sometimes he will. But three days earlier he played terrible. Which shows he has ups and downs, while in the past he was quite stable at this point.
PS. We becoming masters of TOP6 topics. Discussing two of them in one conversation, hell yeah.
Hahahahahhahahahaha
Ja, ja and saved this ground from scarcity. Got it.
As far as I know, from watching vball, players play and winning, not traditions.
HCLT is right. You are totally desperate. You have no answer for my arguments, so you brought me shortcut of Trento's history, which is not the point right now, as we don't talk about Matey being special (gotta add this to my list and change it to TOP7). Moving, totally.
you've got to be kidding me right now. Zaytsev when it comes to choose most loaded player in the team during the match has no opponents at this point. He passes most of the balls and spike most of the balls and there is nothing to compare, because as you said Matey has some support right now. Besides I did not say he is in bad form because he doesn't score 30 points per match. But again we coming back to how you see this sport and I don't want to discuss this point.
I had nothing against team Bulgaria,Kaziyski or Trentino before an army of moaning bulgarians appeared on this website.
they're so annoying that now every time when i read here the words "matey" or "bulgaria" i can't but try to restrain a vomitting reflex, and i bet i'm not the only one.
bulgarians, i don't know what your aim is, but do you realize you do nothing but get everyone around here against bulgaria?
PLEASE stop...volleyball-movies needs a rest from your moanings as much as Matey Kaziyski needs rest from court
cheers
Something else to say: I am tired of listening moaning about our moaning about Bulgaria and Matey. We are free to speak whatever we want if we don't break the rules and the man or woman that can stop me talking hasn't been born yet. Hate me or love me, watch me while I roll ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtwJvgPJ9xw
i know that any my respond to you with cytating and stuff will be a waste of my time, so i won't care about it.
and besides, i am way too well bred to tell you what you are.
instead, i strongly recommend you to hire a psychoanalyst, very experienced and expensive one, to deal with your self-steem problems, which, as far as i can see, are very serious (evidentially, go from your childhood).
if a good specialist won't help you, you're desperate
Zyta, outside of this forum I have a real life with real people who take me seriously enough. Why should I want anything here? I am number one in this site, this is the most serious you can get.
P.S. Only stupid people say that the words of other people are crap if they don't agree with them. You can't be smart and lack manners, because if you never doubt in yourself you can't be smart. The question is why do you want to be perceived as stupid?
since when anyone should be grateful? Maybe she should send you flowers as well?
Congratulations dude! You’ve maybe reached the lowest point of your turbulent and desperate career on v-movies. Calling me stupid makes you feel better? I hope so because you seem to have this urge of battling against everyone. You and your quotes out of place, your “friends” found by convenience as they get rejected as you are, your crazy attempts to impress with a knowledge you lacks… Keep calling me stupid, it’ll make a huge difference in my life and in my participation here.
So you’re number one on v-movies? Wow! Do you wanna a medal? Another flowers? Maybe you want your nickname in green, as you already complained about that, which is pathetic actually? Please, give us some break from your whining and behave like a man, starting by treating girls decently. Neither Kate nor I have given you a reason to be so rude.
You said you have a life outside here… I don’t give a damn too, but it’s hard to believe now when you brought the subject. I remember last Christmas, when you were posting like a freak, but said at some point you had just finished watching a movie with your family. Ray, you had been posting something every five minutes, some of those posts were really long ones. It’s hard to believe you exist outside here, but I don't care anyway, just saying this once you mentioned that while talking to me.
You can stop using YouTube videos to mock those who oppose to you. We all know you’re just copying once again a guy you really want to be, but he’s so much smarter than you.
Peace & love.
Do You Think that your disputes involving to someone?
I would like, perhaps it is time to stop or have them from another part.
Here are all exaggerated.
Friedrichshafen vs. Kazan, that's an easy guess. With Venno (and even more important Böhme as middle) there would've been a slight chance for the Germans due to that stupid golden set rule. During the pool stage they defeated Kazan. The Russians suffer from Volkov's absence, young Gutsalyuk can't close this gap. Regarding Friedrichshafen's current situation, playing without both opposites and putting a starter from the middle position on the opposite instead, makes the whole thing an impossible mission.
Izmir vs. Novosibirsk, a little bit more difficult. There's no doubt about the Russians being stronger, individually and as a team. But since the golden set rule gives the hometeam such a huge advantage, Izmir still has a chance. They won all matches at home so far, which should give them some confidence, even though they didn't host any topteam. Agamez and Joao Bravo having a good day will be essential.
Novosibirsk already played in Turkey during the pool stage, crushing Fenerbace 3-0. They are a good example for the new russian mentality. A very good setter along with fast wingspikers and Sanchez as opposite are hard to beat for every team left in the competition. If they manage to advance to the F4, which they should, they really can make a run and cause a surprise.
Trentino vs. Macerata, the top match. The recent matches between those teams gave a good impression what's gonna happen: If Macerata is able to put on pressure with their serves, what they will definitely try, and don't start to choke as seen during the italian cup, they can win the match. In this case it will be for Juantorena and Stokr to keep Trentino in the match. If Macerata doesn't play on their limit, we will see a blowout.
In case of a golden set, it's hard to make a prediction. Both team proved to be able to win a tiebreak. Still, I would bet on Trentino in this case.
Arkas was a big surprise to me, congratulation!
The fact that Trento won can't actually be a surprise, but I honestly thought that Macerata had a really consistent chance to get the final4... Unofrtunally it seems they wasted it ?
But I'm really glad that there will be again an italian team to cheer for, and I'm ready to support the impressive and huge Trento in this (not really new ?) adventure!
After all, only the first playoff6 match was like I expected...
The drawing of lots and everything was a farce.
After a final advance Macerata ,another with the Kazan.
Whoever wins will be a walk in the final.
Trentino - Kazan
&
Izmir - Belchatow
a draw ? ? ? ? ? ahahahahahaha amazing, really amazing
- best team in Italy at the moment
- best team in Russia at the moment
- Skra
- cinderella with coach Hoag
http://www.trentinovolley.it/news/notizie/9778-trentino-volley-in-polonia-senza-il-logo-planetwin365-sulle-maglie.html
I personally don't like that law and I think it's stupid. But I also don't understand why some team should be excluded from it. I imagine that when foreigners come to your country, you expect them to abide by your country's law? I do because I respect other countries' laws whenever I visit them, even if I think they're weird or useless.
You don't have other meshes ?games with those from your workout.
Do not share the fact that today no ,a month ago yes!
Is Zaksa Polish government or Polish court to change the rules and set the new standards? I don't think so. It was their mistake and I don't see a reason why now, when the organizers remember about the law and warn all the teams about it, it should be overlooked because Zaksa made a mistake. That's just ridiculous. And I'm very serious, believe me.
Plus I really hope that you're not saying all this because it's Trento that the law concerns most. I would like to believe you would protest so strongly if we discussed some other team here.
I, on the other hand, say that every team has to abide by this law and I would still say that if any Polish team was in a similar situation in another country.
That's it, I said everything I had to say about that. I'm not going to change my opinion.
It seems strange to me this. As strange and blame Zaska.
17.02.2012 14:00 Trentino Volley - Zenit Kazan 3-2
18.03.2012 14:30 3rd place match Arkas - Zenit 0-3
18.03.2012 17:30 Final Skra Trentino 3-2
This is how i think it would be ?
Yeah,Kjeldhor,Rafa was completely outplayed by Valerio today...I'll take solace in the thought that this have made my favorite Italian on Earth happy ?
I don't know what you guys mean by Osmany being good or whatever,he looked totally checked out.Bad decision to announce his departure so close to the F4...very bad decision.
To me they lost the match when they let Zenit come back from 14:10 to 16:14 in the 2nd set...so careless...I didn't expect them to act like that - at times it looked like they didn't take it seriously ? Also,not even one ace!!!Seriously?!
Well,such dominance couldn't have gone on forever - I mean it's not good for the sport and all... ?
I except only the MB,the whole team has played badly.
The questone Osmany was to avoid.
For Trent and a period ugly,we hope ends soon.
Good luck Trentiono in a fight for 3 place .
I've said some pretty bad things about the guy in the past,but he impressed me tonight.Tomorrow we'll see if this was a one time thing or he'll shine just as bright against SKRA ?
@handan - Osmany can't be singled out and blamed for that loss.Too many things went wrong today...
I guess,so much for a perfect season,ha?May be Trento finally couldn't handle the nerves?
That was the whole point - that volleyball needs to lure in sponsors,not push them away and not being able to represent them at such a commercial tournament as F4 is not gonna win you any points with them,right?
Yeah,I think Ferrari can manage without a sponsor or two.As of right now not a lot of volleyball teams can say the same.HOWEVER,I respect the law.I would have said the same thing if Macerata or any other team had qualified for the F4 instead of "poor,hurt Trento".
Kisses
EDIT: Chrison, you are right, last action can be checked
Zawodnicy nie mogą poprosić o challange czy było po bloku. Ale jak wypowiadali sie redaktorzy po pomeczowym studio mówili, że sędziowi mieli odprawe przed meczem w sprawie challengu i mogli sędziowie sprawdzić czy było po bloku w sytuacji gdy była piłka setowa albo meczowa.
Of course it was block's touch in the last action, but Skra had own chances before and now the refs mistakes coudn't be excuse. It was so close, but players should blame only themselves for lost.
Both teams made great show, it was beautiful final.
Are you talking about me, dear? ? Anyway, you're spot on !! I'm really happy for Valerio, he deserved a huge reward for the great setter he is (although very underestimated on many occasions).
Alekno...love this man,he was 50% of the team tonight!!!
Hilarious decoration...lol
@pearl - Who else could I be talking about? ? Congrats on your guy getting an individual award!I guess you could say I was one of the Valerio skeptics,because I didn't expect him to play this way before the F4,but he really did a wonderful job ?
A note on the last action - What was the point of the whole "challenge system" if not to avoid situations like this one?Semi-final between Russia and Serbia from ECH 2011 all over again...It's unfortunate that that's the way SKRA had to lose in front of their fans,but they had a lot of chances to win the match before and didn't take advantage of them.
Just want to say that the atmosphere was great!And not just at the final,but at all 4 games this weekend!I don't think there was a match with less than 10 000 spectators ?
concerning the other stuff...let's say what goes around comes around...)
i don't know polish rules, but in this final4 the FIVB say that the challenge can be asked only for checking:
· the ball is in or out the court;
· the ball touched or not the shaft/antennas (dunno the exactly word);
· invasion;
· if a player walked on 9 or 3rd meteor line;
BTW: Anybody knows that Italian league for the first time in history doesn't have any club in European final (Champions league, CEV Cup or Challenge cup) since 1980/81 (first year of challenge cup competition)
It will not change the fact that both teams played well, but Zenit was a little bit better and deserved the win.
No longer about the results because the Zenit won really deserved, but the referees were the only ones able to check this and again acted as the all-knews-gods
GO HARD MAXIM !
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