Bartosz Kurek 3rd meter spike (Wieluń - Skra)

Jak widać świetnie "przeczytali" Kurka :)

Raylight, when a foreigner goes to a club at A1 (or anywhere else), it doesn’t mean he’ll play in the same scheme he was playing before in his home country – he’s the one who’s going to adapt his skills to the club, not the team to him. Sometimes a team can just replace one player by another with same style. Take your time and analyze those clubs whose rosters have changed this season. Please, check how much their game changed – not that much or maybe nothing at all. When Nikolov played in Japan he learned more about defense, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t change that Asian style to play in his club. No way! Watch those Cubans playing in Europe and compare to what they did back in Cuba – they still base their game in physicality, but it’s not Cuba’s style you’re seeing when their clubs play. Obviously each player gives his contribution, but he’s part of a big structure. As a good example, I can mention the German national football team. They even have some Germans playing (lol), but when you see that team, despite all foreigners there, it’s still German football.

Variability is greater in clubs, Henrique, you may meet the same clubs every year, but they are not the same as players, every club is mixture between many volleyball cultures that makes it stronger, while every NT is single volleyball culture

hah that was good ;] , but indeed we really lost because of me ... I was the captain so I get the full credit ...

NightFox, by “small universe” you can understand almost the same opponents every time. Yes, A1 is the best club tournament, no doubt about it. I believe you’ll agree that A1 is even more important to Italian clubs than ChL, right? I meant “small universe” compared to NTs tournaments. Regarding the bad day, if you read all those comments, you saw a colleague using that now famous 25:9, so I fought back using the Modena massacre – wanna tell a joke, I can tell you one, too. ;-) I bet your team lost because of you. If only you could “stay forever in the air while blocking”, if you had 10/10 performance in hitting, 9/10 in serving… lol

You wrote so much things and different things about everything so I lost your points of view. Henrique, can't catch your thought , once you tell us Seria A is number 1. And then you notes that they are playing in "small universe" - I also think that this World Club Ch. is a joke, but Seria A and CL are really not and maybe that's the two biggest competitions (club level) ... So I really can't catch your thought. You're using this 3:0 with Modena to annoy the others, but really ... can't believe that I'm hearing that from "the expert"(that's I'm calling you, hope you don't mind) pointing one game of the team. And I know there are bad days in every sport, because when I was still playing we had this match ... when we tried everything to defeat a team which was two classes behind us. They beat us 3:0 one of the games 25:14 ... and everything was going so bad, our serves out of the court, our spikes in to the block and reception on the 5th m. So yes there are bad days, but I thought you know that.

Yeah, that's why I said nothing personal, as I only pointed volleyball aspect. As a fresh example I remember him playing with advanced hernia at WCH2010, still trying to give his best for the team. That kind of players always deserve more admiration, no matter how much skills they lack, but on the other hand there's a point where heroic battle with body should be stopped by the player, otherwise the body will stop it permanently. Of course in this case it's rather fault of the Bulgarian association, as they shouldn't have based on a single guy for so many years. Świderski is a great example of a human wreck. Lots of commitment from him plus bad training methods at the beginning of his career made him an early pensioner. "It’s true! So I was the drunk guy, not you." Let's just say your account wasn't hijacked by Sherlock this night ;)

Michal, how can I say something bad for a player, who plays at 150% for the NT with all his limitations? How can I not respect his big heart? He is never tired for us and is running wild all games. If I was on a mission in hell to save the Princess of Light, I would take him as my soldier ;)

I dont know which lvl is higher: NT or club, but I think that 99 % volleyball players prefer to win Olympic than CL 10 times in a row. Happy new year.

No worries. ;-)

It’s true! So I was the drunk guy, not you. How could have our friend Raylight said a bad word about Zhekov? Not in a million years! :-p

Henrique Although I was sober last night and I follow this passionating discussion I unconsciously took this one out of contest- my bad. Still no harm done, as I share your opinion, at least in this point. P.S I won't suspect you for being Sherlock, as raylight would never say such a bad thing about his favourite world class setter Zhekov, lol (nothing personal raylight ;p).

Nagor and HCLT You should continue this discussion on private message. Its only suggestion.

Poor Nagor, so desperate... We don’t even count silver medals (we don’t care), but your answer shows your desperation and low IQ – bragging about a silver medal makes you look a total loser (well, you are). I won’t remind you the most recent scores because the last time I did that you cried for a month. Hahahaha BTW, you’re quite aggressive for someone that a few minutes ago was preaching peace. Weird guy! Oh, you can go around giving me minuses, you know I don’t care, and just confirms you suffer a lot. I know every time I write here you cry in desperation. I also know people like me make you feel dumb. You’re pathetic in every sense, a real loser. ;-)

Yeah, I am from low Poland, 2011 was the worst year in our volleyball, only second place in World Cup... And I dont remember... Which place took Brasil?

Please, kid, go to sandpit.

And now about troll. It isnt insult when you say 'troll' to troll. It can be insult when it is said to normal user.

Michal, 2007 WC and ECH 2011 / Poland, Germany, Estonia/ are better performances by Zhekov for me

HCLT, I already wrote the basic arguments and there is no dispute on them. How many great winners from NT couldn't repeat the successes on club level? You can add pretty impressive list here. I don't think my statements need much more backing, just watching best clubs play and comparing to NT - only Brazil 2002-2007 could match the quality. Not only the level is different, the competitions are longer and tougher for clubs, every match is final in the strong leagues

Nagor, isn’t calling other people “troll” an insult? What a good boy! You’re a ridiculous nationalist that suffers because your team has had their butt kicked several times. When you see no way out you play the victim. Or should I remind people the things you wrote? BTW, I wasn’t even talking to you when YOU CAME HERE to insult me. Did you like the answer? No. You can cry, I couldn’t care less... I have no doubt you’ll be the same douche in 2012. People like you never change. ;-)

@hanes233 be careful what you're saying! Henrique is watching us! Whatever we say will be used against us soon or later.. he knows the hronology we're saying things..

I understand, your intelligence is not your fault, but try to no insult anyone who has different opinion than you. It can be hard, but try, you can be better human in 2012.

Handan, saying “always, always winning” makes you sound you know like what – maybe the Trentino Freaks Police changed your mind. You said here before you see limited variation on Trentino attack. Do you think that would work on NT level? I didn’t compare a duo, but a trio. Remember that Nikolov in his best days was better than Stokr, so your remark is senseless.

Raylight, could you show with some solid arguments that club level is higher? You can barely understand the sport – it was proven here several times. Your “no mathematical law” sentence made me laugh. Let me tell you that sports are ruled but something else than simple math. I knew you’d remind us again about the 25:9 – so predictable. Regarding the big margin, you may know but you love to distort words and facts when you get desperate... I was talking about the play-offs results, when a club totally overpower the opponent. Did this happen? However, if you’re still interested in isolated matches, I can give you this – have fun. Some people call it a bad day, I call it humiliation.
https://volleybox.net/angel-dennis-show-modena-trentino-m1612
Michal, is that really you? Or Raylight hijacked your account? Please, pay attention to the sentence “IF THAT WAS REALLY TRUE”. The success of Trentino doesn’t rely only on those three hitters. I also wrote “saying Trentino middles and setters don’t make any difference is a big mistake”. Remember that? To be successful, Trentino can’t play old school like some people try to sustain. Okay, you might have drunk a little bit too much last night...

Hanes, you said “the comments that I have posted the first months that I joined were quite pointless”. Well, a month ago you were already a veteran. Can we wrap this up? ;-)

Poor Nagor... Another year and he’s still suffering because of me. I feel so sorry for people with low intelligence... Hahahaha

Na sz kocha ny troll sie rozkkreca z tego co widze, za jakie grzechy...

"Think about it... If that was really true, let’s get back to Bulgaria with Kaziyski, Nikolov and Konstantinov. That trio is certainly more effective or at least the same when compared to Kaziyski, Juantorena and Stokr. Why Bulgaria hasn’t won anything?" I think you forgot about ball distribution in both cases, which is very important. Although Raphael is not a phenomenal setter he's still 10 times more stable and reliable than Zhekov. Even though 2006 was the year when the Bulgarian reached his top performance so far he still couldn't eliminate simple technical mistakes in crucial moments.

@Henrique:"Hanes, you wrote that a month ago." I know and I explained that comment: "(I should have sayd one of the best, mistakes happen and stuff, you forget some details when you are exited) I didn't meant that he is the best in all his abilities, I know that he is averige in reception, in digging, in spiking and serving he is great (one of the best nowdays)." I say it just so you can understand me better:) There is no such thing as best player, only best players for some teams;) Peace!

what the hell :)

Trentino with small margin? All those 25-9 sets against Cuneo, Dinamo or Kozle got to mean something :D

Henrique knows I was exaggerating on purpose, because some players are so undervalued :) I don't understand why nobody counts club titles in volleyball, the level is higher than NT level /Henrique knows the exception/ and is harder to get them. In football or basketball there are so many superstars who didn't win anything with NT, in NBA are tons of people who never got a call from it and still are players to remember. Why volleyball should be different? Henrique, there is no mathematical law according to which club level is lower than NT level - not in football, volleyball, rugby, basketball, baseball or handball. You combine the best players from every nation, they train much more time together, you have much more filtering of random factors in competition - andata, ritorno, playoffs 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5, final which in most of the places is still 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5. It is not like ECH where everyone can become champion with bad pool balance and comfortable opponents, it is much, much harder

HCLT-I think you're truely underestimating the power of Trentino.Small or big margin ,the important thing is they're always always winning. Winning one champhionship is different ,dominating all club season in every level is quite different. Juantorena-Kaziyski due is better than Kaziyski -Kostantinov due ,so your Bulgaria example is quite irrelevant. Up to this year I believed Juantorena with tolerable reception was the best player in the world. But this year seeing how his reception goes ok to worse and how one dimensional he is playing in the attack (despite attack percentage is 60% !!) ,he lost this title in my eyes. Pesazi - ''Only very few players are as good in attacking to hide their weakness in reception and defense. Trento is lucky to have two of them. The last years, most teams wheren't ready for Trentos powerstyle. Cuneo was in a couple of matches, and Trento lost.'' Come on they are dominating like three years in a row. But seeing their reception this year which got even worser ,I agree with you that they are going to lose this.

Pesazi, we should keep in mind that Handan was talking about club level, which is lower than NTs, no matter how club fans try to tell themselves it’s not. Trentino plays in a very small universe. The main one (by far) is A1, ChL is second, and that club worlds is a joke that FIVB has been trying to resurrect since the nineties. Even at A1, weren’t for the play-offs, a format we don’t have on NTs level, Trentino would have already failed. The play-offs give them a chance to recover that elimination rounds don’t. Besides, their victories happen not on some astonishing margin in final rounds, but for a small difference very often. Seeing a so-called best club team being humiliated like on that famous Angel Dennis aces episode is unacceptable. What “so far the best club” would lose like that? I think some people here don’t know or don’t remember Sisley Treviso recent history. Club scenario changes pretty quickly. One more thing: Saying Trentino middles and setters don’t make any difference is a big mistake. Although their main players are obviously the left sides and the opposite, that team isn’t so old school to rely only on the most predictable plays. Think about it... If that was really true, let’s get back to Bulgaria with Kaziyski, Nikolov and Konstantinov. That trio is certainly more effective or at least the same when compared to Kaziyski, Juantorena and Stokr. Why Bulgaria hasn’t won anything? Wasn’t even close? Yes, my friends, NTs play in a higher level. I hope it's clear now. It’s funny because we see some Bulgarian fans comparing their team to Poland quite often. If my memory is okay (sorry, I drank a lot last night), Poland was runner-up at 2006 Worlds and won 2009 ECh. I really don’t remember Bulgaria getting even close... Before some offended Bulgarian fan comes here saying the subject was Trentino, I believe I don’t need to remind anyone that almost every time Bulgarian fans hang on to Trentino’s successes like they were theirs (already happened on this thread), and many of them attribute those successes to the Bulgarians in Trento.

Not always, but most of the time. A player has to be extremly good in one aspect of the game to cover his leaks, and still beeing recognised as a good player. Only very few players are as good in attacking to hide their weakness in reception and defense. Trento is lucky to have two of them.
The last years, most teams wheren't ready for Trentos powerstyle. Cuneo was in a couple of matches, and Trento lost.
This year Trento will lose to Kazan in the final four, maybe even sooner.
Remember my words.

Being more all-around player doesn't always mean being better player.Otherwise you can't explain the success of Trentino.

Hanes, you wrote that a month ago. :-p Believe me, I hate when things go nasty, but some people think they're so damn right and everyone else is wrong. Some of them twist your words, as they can’t sustain a conversation. Peace!

Actually I noticed them, I just didn't quetoe your whole comment, tho that would be more accurate but I brought out the part I focused on. The comments that I have posted the first months that I joined were quite pointless, that was my opinion without knowing other players, but by the comment you mean(I should have sayd one of the best, mistakes happen and stuff, you forget some details when you are exited:D) I didn't meant that he is the best in all his abilities, I know that he is averige in reception, in digging, in spiking and serving he is great (one of the best nowdays) That is my realistic point of view. It is very intresting to discuss with you atleast when things don't go nasty like some (you know what discussions I mean). Happy New Year to you too!

Hanes, I think you didn’t get the point. Once I mentioned a Brazilian player you got confused – I normally avoid mentioning them. You should have noticed I mentioned two fantastic Serbian players (Vujevic and V. Grbic), but maybe when you saw Dante’s name you got blind. I was talking about SOME KIND OF PLAYERS. Forget Dante and think about those Serbians. Got it? It’s not like “this guy is gonna play for your NT”. No! How many times do we have to repeat this? Myself, I did it a few times. I saw Zyta doing some, too. IT’S ABOUT THE SKILLS. Anyway, it seems impossible to discuss anything with you when Kaziyski’s name has been mentioned. You’re the guy that once called Matey “the best volleyballer who has ever walked on earth”. Sorry, I can’t take you seriously, though I know you’re good guy. ;-) Happy New Year!

@Henrique:"Why take a Kurek type (we won’t mention that other guy whose surname starts with “K” to avoid freaks reaction), if you can have someone like Dante, who receives, digs and blocks in high level." You forget to mention that Dante also spikes on high level, but he digs on quite high level. I got your point and I know myself that there is no point of mixing players from defferent national teams, milk and burger doesn't fit together just like Kaziyski and Brazil dont fit together, end of story.

also ;-)



That suppose to be our secret you bastard!

Let me seize the opportunity to wish a FANTASTIC 2012 to all of you guys! Let's hope Mayas' people were a bit drunk when they made their prophecy :D and 2012 isn't going to be "the end of the world" ("as we know it"... hihi...I love this R.E.M. song) :D

C’mon Zyta... Did you forget I saw you chasing Kurek to take a picture with him? You’re a Kurkofan! Anyway, Glinka is great. Gamova? I prefer Lioubov Sokolova.

Zyta, I see what you're trying to say and I'm not sure we have different opinion.. pokój wam! (I hope "pokój" mean "peace")

Pearl, Buon Anno anche a voi ea tutti gli italiani sul V-Movies.

@HCLT: sospettavo :( Te lo mando di nuovo...a proposito Buon Anno ;)

@Pearl: Non quella chilometrica. :-(

Sllaveq, you can’t blame me, once I’m reading the crap you write. Touché! lol

I'm talking about fanatics, not about fans. We can back to this topic when you will see difference. To help you a bit compare proud and Raylight. Proud, although still a bit blind about Matey, has distance and respect to opinion of others. Also she reads and understand what we say. And I'm not talking here about knowledge of english but about literacy skills. Which Raylight does not have and you seems to not have too, no offense.


BOOM! Hear that? That was my ego. If I would be ever someone's freak, I would be definitely Glinka's freak. The Queen is only one and that's not Gamova ?

@HCLT: intendevo, hai ricevuto il mio messaggio kilometrico?? Quello con gli auguri di Buon anno?!

@Pearl: Sì, ho risposto. Non hai visto?

You're already overpuked LOL

"why you hate Kaziyski so much?" I'm gonna puke. lol

@HCLT: "letter soup" ahhah...nice...i think you had already told me that ;) Hai ricevuto il mio PM? I apologize for my OT again ;)

zyta "perfect picture of how we see now bulgarian fanaticism." that does mean you're seeing Bulgaria only as raylight.. or as volleyball ? And HCLT, a person who tells somebody a fool without knowing him.. omg you're hilarious, learn how to argue without insults and then go use internet for such a purpose.

@Pearl: I just remember "Ctvrtlik" has only one vowel. Here in Brazil, players and commentators called him "letter soup". :-p