I've been doing the happy dance for the past two hours ?
good idea, do it now, as I guess u won't have a chance on sunday.
overlook
And, as we many time wrote here, we can't win without opposite, but this situation is Anastasi fault.
excuse me, did I miss something? did Anastasi hurt Zibi during F8? I saw that match live and I haven't seen Anastasi on court behind Bartman when this happened. Is Anastasi's fault we are so retarded that we focused on one player, who played actually only three full seasons in NT, but we still count on him, and didn't train another opposite? Even Serbia, who has Miljkovic, the best opposite give him some rest on WL to train new opposites as they know they will be f*cked if they would not let Starovic or Atansijevic some experience until Ivan will decide to retiring.
Zyta to była wina Anastaziego, owszem eksperymentował z Bartmanem ale nie musiał bo był Janeczek czy chociażby Konarski, którzy mieli dobry sezon ligowy, nawet Gromadowski. Każdy z nich byłby lepszy od Jarosza, który miał fatalny sezon i jeszcze się nie odbudował u AA i Gruche, który rok nie grał po kontuzji.
Konarski połowę sezonu się leczył, i wrócił do treningów o wiele za późno, stąd AA musiał go skreślić z listy. Gromadowski to kolejny Jarosz, dwudziestopięcioletni średniak, który "nie może się przełamać", Janeczek wcale nie na tyle wybitny, by ryzykować debiutanta na ME, Gruszka nie grał 5 miesięcy, a nie rok, i dziś już grał lepiej, skąd AA miał wiedziećw trakcie LŚ, że Jarosz się nie przełamie? Zresztą w najważniejszej chwili przełamał się, w meczu o brąz i nam ten brąz wygrał. Dzis gdyby nie jego obrony, nie podciągnelibyśmy wyniku w końcówce, przy meczowej dla bułgarii skończył atak, choć wczesniej miał z tym problem. Jak widać czasem potrafi. Poza tym kolejna sprawa przemawia za Jaroszem - ogranie reprezentacyjne, to robi swoje, nie zmienia się reprezentacyjnego atakującego od tak na debiutanta. Ich się wprowadza powoli, a AA miał presję wyniku na LŚ, nie było czasu na eksperymenty, teraz ma szansę z okazji dzikiej karty, więc bierze Fabiana i Mikę.
Poza tym nie czytałeś/łaś o zaległościach na siłowni Fabiana? Nie pomyślałeś/łaś, że to jest powód dla którego Janeczek też wtedy przed LŚ wypadł? Ja uważam Zibiego na prawym za świetny pomysł i bo akiej siły ognia nie gwarantuje nam póki co ani Jarosz, ani Janeczek, ani Konarski. Wystarczy, że Zib jeszcze potrenuje w kadrze na tej pozycji i jest ok.
Zaległości mogli nadrobić, mieli całą LŚ na przygotowywanie się. Uważam, że gdyby od początku AA ogrywał Drzyzgę i Janeczka to teraz nie byłoby aż takiego problemu z rozegraniem i atakiem i wnieśli by więcej do gry niż Żygadło i Gruszka/Jarosz.
Czy ja dobrze zrozumiałam? Mieli grać na LŚ i się przygotowywać z formą fizyczną? gdzie? w samolocie? skoro musieli nadrobić zaległości fizyczne, bo nie podołaliby trudom turnieju jakim jest LŚ, to nie mógł ich wg twej teorii od początku ogrywać, więc nie zdążyliby się ograć [co i tak zajmuje więcej czasu niż 3 miesiące, ogranie i doświadczenie nabiera się z wiekiem, a nie z trzema treningami], więc i tak byłby problem. Twoja ewentualna teoria nie miałaby więc racji bytu.
Poza tym przykład: Nowakowski gra w kadrze od dwóch lat, a cwaniactwa i doświadczenia jak nie używał, tak nie używa, Żekow kiwał ich jak chciał, a wybitnym sypaczem nie jest. Skąd więc pewność, że oni daliby więcej?
I tak wyjdziemy z grupy, Gruszka odzyskuje formę [jeśli ktoś uważał, że będzie miał formę życia jak na ME2009, to podziwiam za optymizm], Kubiak szaleje kiedy trzeba. Największym problemem są błędy własne i powolny środek.
Jeśli AA jest taki beznadziejny, to może wróćmy do DC? Wtedy to już w ogóle będzie cacy.
LŚ trwało przez jakieś 6 tygodni plus przygotowywania przed LŚ koło 2 tyg jak nie więcej, do tego faza finałowa do której też były 2 tygodnie czasu na przygotowywania. Tak więc mogliby przepracować koło 2,5 miesiąca pod okiem fachowca jakim jest Anastazi. Żygadło nie jest dobrym sypaczem, grał źle jak do tej pory, chociaż muszę przyznać że na ME jakoś lepiej gra ale i tak często rzuca na podwójny/potrójny blok i jest niedokładny. Drzyzga gorzej by na zagrał a mozliwe że lepiej. Rozumiem, że Janeczek to nie jest wybitny atakujący ale na pewno lepszy jest od tych powołanych. Tak więc dalej obstaje przy mojej teorii.
A jeśli chodzi o cwaniactwo to z tym się trzeba raczej urodzić, np Kubiak.
No nie rozumiesz, że nie mogli, bo mieli zaległości w kondycji fizycznej i by nie podołali trudom turnieju? Przed LŚ trenowali z AA, ale nie wyrobili się z siłownią, a PZPS chciał medalu, więc AA nie mógł sobie wziąć kogoś kto odstaje od grupy, tylko bierze najsprawniejszych w danym momencie i ich przygotowuje do turnieju głównego, ci z kondycją zerową odpadają na starcie, bo by się nie wyrobili. Dlatego nie mogli z nim przepracować 2,5 miesiąca.
NightFox Съжалявам, oioi започна на полски език ?[is it correct?]
Today will be the clowns day for our group. We win - Poland fall, we fall - poland will try to win...btw I think Rado will go out with the 2nd team..others need rest and that match change nothing for us. We'll see Russia for sure...but that's how the champions are made, right? Better be defeated in 1/4 finals than beeing clowns, I hope Rado won't make me feel shame today. I don't wanna circus..
/for the bulgarians/ Еми вижте в спортал са направили цяла статия за опциите.
Почти няма вариант да НЕ сме втори, те поляците ще играят игрички... Ако нашия мач беше след техния щеше да е друго.
К'во да прайм ся... к'вото дойде таквоз.. пък и що да не одъним Русия. ?
Przegraliśmy przez proste błędy/zaniechania w końcówkach. W drugim secie przy stanie 23-22, Kurek został zablokowany, a przy piłce setowej bułgarzy łatwo go wyblokowali ( dzięki geniuszowi Żygadle, obie piłki na podwójnym bloku ) i skończyli seta. To samo stało się w ostatnim secie, najpierw Żygadło nie dociągnął piłki do antenki (22-22)- Kurek atakuje na podwójnym bloku po siatce w aut. Trzeba również nadmienić w tej akcji słabe przyjęcie łatwego flota- Aleksieva, przez Ignaczaka. No i przy piłce meczowej, Jarosz się poślizgnął, analogia do meczu Polska - Niemcy w kopanej i zachowania Wawrzyniaka.
Да,наистина,каквото и да правим,май ще сме втори,защото виж какво е казал Анастази след мача - http://volleyball.sportal.bg/news.php?news=324676 .Все тая,от никой не ме е страх,истинските шампиони не се крият като...(попълнете със съществително по избор ;) )
I'm 90% sure that Poland will do like Brazil at the World Ch if Bulgaria win today, so it's the same thing - loose or win. The table is fuck*d up again ...
I think that it's nothing wrong to play the second squad if these players play for a win. If a team is qualified for the next round surely titular playes could rest, if the subs play really crappy or lose on purpose it kills the sport. I know we could choose the place in a table but I hope no matter who will play he will give his best.
This is awful that we make this all scenarios for today, really sad that we wonder how we'll be play for lost or don't care about result. Two first team in each group should get to quarterfinals, that'll be fair in my opinion.
Guys sorry for our personal, inside discussion. You can pass over that?
zver: volleyball is "game of mistakes", we made them more that our opponents, so we lost.
zyta: I also think that AA made good thing with Bartman change to opposite, that's great idea. I have big respect for Gruszka too, but account he's after injury and his age it was obvious that he'll be need change. You have some rational arguments about Jarosz (that explain why for example Kłos is in NT), but don't you think that the most important is level of the game. He played good in one match so far (WL, Memorial and ECH), how long we must wait for him? Say about his good single actions shows that something's wrong. And it's AA fault that he didn't prepare other option, like oioi wrote.
Yeah - you have to do just like Bulgaria did with Sokolov and as you see he change the face of our game yesterday. Vlado is good but not every game as you see ... most of all he is very emotional and wants to be perfect in every situation and at this age he can't. The fresh blood is something what every team need and if you mix it with the experienced players you will have the team for the gold.
@NightFox
We don't need fresh blood yet. We need Wlazły to change his behaviour. I don't want to start another discussion about him, but the fact is we have world-class player, but he don't want to sacrifice for our NT.
And another fact is, that we have most lacks on positions, where play our absent players. Only Winiarski wouldn't be as necessary as other, because of Kubiak ?
yes it's better not having comments like mine but I hate when bulgarian turkish guys pretend to be someone else..
He knows bulgarian perfect I'm sure.
He is parasite spaming on bulgarian videos. He should have ban.
Very happy for Bulgaria's win! Apparently they aren't afraid to face whoever in next matches and did not loose on purpose. They have my full respect for that. ?
BTW, Compliments to Bulgarian for the victory.
I'm surprised that Estonia won 3-0 over Portugal and Finland 3-0 over Belgium, I didn't expect that. I thought Belgium would have taken at least one point in this match.
And Slovenia almost risk to be third!
So, I checked that Belgium is probably out. Only if we will win 3-0 Belgium will have a chance to pass (with the point ratio), I guess (now france has 4 sets won and 4 lost, Belgium 4 sets won and 7 lost). And that will hardly happen. Poor Belgium, I apreciated that they won vs France...
Congratulations Estonia, great match!!! Poland is playing without Kurek, Kubiak, Żygadło, Możdżonek and Gruszka, but boys are fighting brave against Slovakia. If we take the second place, we will play against Estonia and than, if we would win, Russia. If we take the third place - Czech Republic and later probably Slovakia or maybe Bulgaria, so it's betterto take the third place... it's strange with this system...
Wow, in the whole game only 2 hitting errors and 2 times blocked, attack 75% ? Much improved if compared to yesterday's match against Portugal, with 49%.
As always, Anastazi sold the match. And Bulgaria has better chances against Russia than Poland in this line-up that's for sure. Russia is THE favorite, clearly. And the only Polish spiker that convinced today was Jarosz, the rest slept for three sets
Jarosz played for his honour, to prove that he is good opposite and he was in that match at least. May be time in Latina will help him develop his character, he has potential obviously
where is playing Milan Bencz from Slovakia? he's very good player!
and today in match pol-svk Michał Ruciak scored point like this https://volleybox.net/giba-funny-point-m629
;d
and raylight, if somebody solds matches, its Rezende or Bagnoli. in wch 2010 Anastasi wanted to win all matches...
Bencz is playing in Rome.
Last year he had to replace Poey when he leftand he did a good work, you could seem he care a lot of the team and trys to do his best, often he scored more than 20. But the problem is that he often made mistake in the most important moments... Or more errors in a row.
kk15, but who will be in starting six, Sabbi or Bencz? and don't you think that Roma has nice team this year?
raylight, also Mateusz Mika played nice(18 pts, Jarosz - 26), he will be good player in the future, but in this match he made tooooo many mistakes.
За пореден път се убедих, че поляците са готови и да лапат само и само да не срещнат някой силен по пътя. Язък. Чехия ще ги дъни още на осмина финал.
Anastazi ready to s*ck only not facing big teams. Honor and respect for Bulgaria for playing honest and not being clowns.
I think Czech will defeat Poland in 1/8 final as hosts.
Nothing personal but I'm sick of schemes and loosers for purpose..
Today Poland prove they are not good enough to defeat big teams.
@SkyloIoannes, you are so hypocrite. If we are loosers, and we're not good enough to defeat big teams - your team too.
Don't you remember your team in WC'10 in match BRA - BUL? Your team played in the basic composition? No, you played yours subs players, just like my team today.
We can't blame teams or coaches, tournament rules are once again STUPID!There is nothing worse than seeing world class players playing like 12years old but we can't do nothing about that...
Yes but the difference is that we didn't lost!!!!!! Despite the fact we should to..
And your play with the second sqaud was only being in the field. Nothing else..
Yesterday Stoytchev said : We'll play for the win because that is the purpose of the game.
Anastazi answered the question "will you let Slovakia beat you" with "I won't say you".
See the difference between the loosers and lions now?
And be sure we're not afraid from Russia even knowing they will probably beat us.
When coming home fans will say "good job, even not being champions you play fair game"
What you'll say to your team? "Good job, nice lost."
Interesting.
dear Bulgarian people, we will see who took better tactics.
hope to see you again in semi-final(ohh, sorry i forgot that you play with Russia and we won't meet there?.
@SkyloIoannes.
"Good job, nice lost." I could tell your team exactly the same the year ago.
The difference is that you didn't lost? It's not argument at all. With Brazil plays like that, even the second Kameroon team would win with they.
I'll tell it again, you are the same loosers like we are.
SkyloIoannes, your black-dressed Bulgarian team is not an example for any other team. We'll see, what are your vball gods gonna do against Russia. Do I have to recall you behavior of Bulgaria during WC '10?
Hmm ... it's 80% sure that Russia will beat us, but it's our mistake. If we made the match ball against Slovakia the table would be very different and now we've gonna be sure for the Final 4 ... I don't underastamate the estonians I think we'll beat them. And then with Russia we will cross fingers for our lions. Nothing more - As Rado said if we want to be champions we have to beat everybody ... we don't want a medal , we want the cup ... so it's the same if we face Russia now or in the final.
I for one am sad because of it. Bulgaria did the right thing at WCH 2010 cause they played for a win even with subs. We haven't done the same thing. I'm not proud or happy but the real guys to blame is Fivb and CEV, they made the schematics of games, we just adapted and choose our opponents and I'm sad about it.
Bulgaria should stop thinking about other teams IMO. If they wouldn't had waste the match points vs Slovakia they've already been in the 1/4.
And I'm sorry you are the unluckiest one, but someone HAS to face Russia in the quarter! You can't always blame the formula... calculation will be always possible, unless they won't mix the games casually after the pool, "sorting" the matching (is it the right world? I mean, like for the numbers of lottery..). Or unless they won't make a rank of the 4 team second classificated in the pools and give to the better second qualificated the worst third and so on.
BTW, if there's a team that can beat Russia, it's Bulgaria ?
About Italy... horrible 3rd, 4th, expecially 5th set. in th tie break 23% in attack=3 points. this is ridicoulus.
I hate that when we don't need to won anymore, we can keep focusing and fighting for one set and then we collapse. It seems to me a scenario too much similar to the end of the international tournament in WL: we needed two set vs Cuba in the second last game, we took its, and after we took also the third set (and the match) also with a nice come back. And the day after, 3 sets lost in a row. And then, losing vs Argentina at the final eight.
Now, we needed one set for being the first. We took it. Then we took also the second, and again with a nice come back. And after, 3 sets lost in a row. And then... Well, in the quarter we have only one option.
I was so proud after the first two set, now I'm quite disappointed. Hope it won't be a deja vù.
BTW, I'm so glad Parodi had the chance to play and being really useful for the team.
Did you dear Bulgarians forgot last year when your team sent subs against Brazil? Oh, yes, you won, because Brazil took better tactic how to loose, but sending subs was on purpose, when Giba said that on press conference Nikolov didn't answer, because what he could say?
So don't call us loosers now. You wanted to loose last year, we wanted this year. It's clear. Also Slovakia defeated you, Germans and who knows if they wouldn't beat our first squad if we've lost with you?
Besides, c'mon, you have Ananiev, didn't raylight said with Ananiev in good form he can beat Russia by himself? So what's the problem?
Zyta, we sent subs, but they played much better than Brazil's main players and they fought for the victory. I am happy that this year we played with first team, this is the face I want to see. In Poland I saw mainly Jarosz to play with heart. It is your problem that you have Anastazi as coach and he deserves zero respect just like Rezende, or almost.
Kk15, if the formula is like in football, there will be no calculations, don't defend the corruption of CEV and FIVB. Every competition is with unbalanced streams and possibilities of cheating in the last years. Italy cheated twice in 2010, first by giving Serbia our spot, second by the distribution of teams in the two streams at the WCH. Brazil played theater. Serbia played theater versus Poland. We played with subs, Russia played theater with subs. This World League the judges and Argentina helped Poland to reach semifinal. Now Poland fell un-coached from Slovakia. Do you really want to watch sport like this? Do you really want this to continue forever? Poland and Italy won't always be on the winning side of these unfairness and when your turn comes what will you say? There should be one law for all and that is justice
To be clear, I'm not accepting what AA did at all, but I don't like hypocrisy. Your boys fought for victory? Have you seen their reaction after every ace, which shouldn't happened? They played as they saw Brazil will loose it anyway, but it wasn't fight with heart, not at all.
Zyta, you can't expect fight with heart in the nonsense match ... but we played for the win and if you say the opposite you're wrong ...
KK15, we can always blame the formula, because if you were at my place last year, when your team didn't deserve at all to be at the Final 4, you would tell the same. Last year the formula was made for Italy. This year it's not but it's still fuck*d up because it is not normal one team to play 3 ours early than another at the last round of the group stage. For that purpose the English Premier League makes all matches in the last round at the same time ... And the formula is not good at all . It must be 1st against the 2nd and then the lottery.
If you are in the condition to wait for someone else to "give you the spot", you can blame only your self. You can't say "for their fault I'm not there", because reaching a goal is smth that has to be up to you, and you only. Expecially if "you" is Bulgaria. If you can't obtain it by yourself, you can hope that other teams will make certain result, but if it won't go as you hope, you can't blame nobody exept you.
Notice that this comment doesn't mean I agree with "chosing the easier way", because I don't agree ?
And I also think that if a team is sure to have reach the first place in a pool (like Argentina in final8, for example), it's their right to rest the titoulars if they need it. That doesn't mean that they have to lose, that means the subs have to do whatever in their power to win, using the chance to show their value as well as possible.
NightFox but my opinion is they didn't playing for victory.
Today your team new, that for 99% they will get second place in group, so the best way was just win and then talking about themselves as a heroes. They are smarter than last year.
"didn't deserve at all to be at the Final 4"
I agree that the formula was easier for us in the first two pool, but to get the semis we beat USA, Olympic champions, so it's true that we had an easier way to Rome, but not an easy way the the semis! if we managed to win the third pool it's thanks to ourself (I don't mention France because they were without proper opposite and N'gapeth when we face them).
Brazil had Czech and Germany, if I'm not wrong! Don't tell me this pool was harder than our!
And if you check who had to face Russia in the first two pool, you'lle see they didn't had strong pools. They 'only' had to beat Serbia (as we 'only' had to beat USA), but they didn't. Russia was stronger than Italy, but they wasted the chance to proove it. That doesn't mean we deserve the 4th place the less.
Kk15 you are talking - you face USA lol ! That USA witch is nothing like the USA at the Olympics I'm sure you know that because you understand the volleyball . And don't tell me you deserved that place because Bulgaria and Russia were so much better than your team. The formula was made for you and you know that, you want to confinse me that you deserved the place but you can't, because everybody saw it ... It's very annoying when someone denies the obvious.
Zyta, tell me who of our players said something about your lost of Slovakia ? They just said before the match that they will play for the win and they're not scared to face Russia. So respect our team as we respect yours . I didn't say that if we were at your place we won't do the same, and I'm not misguided to think that ... no ...
NightFox Nikolov said to polish journalist "I knew Poland will be cheating" ? I respect your team, but as I said I don't like hypocrisy [saying about us as a cheaters, while your team did similar thing - sending subs last year], but you showed now are not hypocrite saying the last sentence.
@raylight Zyta, we sent subs, but they played much better than Brazil's main players and they fought for the victory.
It wasn't hard to win, when the setter in Brazil was THEO! and they play at 5 % of their skill's, LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a hypocrite?
and FTW main players? are you kidding me?
Something funny :
Matey Kaziyski failed to save Bulgaria against Slovakia on Saturday, but showed that the messengers of his balls are dangerous for everyone. Already in the first minutes of the match against the Slovaks Kaziyski that day sent a ball directly into the laptop the federation public relations worker Maria Dzherekarova. Laptop, of course, was broken after the powerful punch.
This was not the first laptop that falls victim to Bulgarians at the EC. Prior to that, and they broke the computer of the Italian statistician Mateo Lavrato during exercise. Laptop suffer from the rebound ball headquarters team immediately brought him to repair.
@ Nightfox Bulgaria have a quite strange way/tactics to get to victory, but after all each team has its own, hasn't it? XD
I agree with you about the formula in the last WC: It was clearly made by our federation to make our team get as far as possible. But that is a part of the game nowadays. The FIVB (or CEV aswell) lets you hold the event, and since this involves costs/problems of various kinds to the organizers, they gave them some (questionable in my opinion) "advantages" as creating the match schedule is.
Radostin Stoychev :
"Theoretically, if you want to adjust the opponent had to lose 0:3.We didn't do it because it's not my understanding of the sport. I can not go to the team and say 'Guys, you need to lose" ...
Playing for lose and don't care about the result is a difference. A year ago Brazil made a parody, but we played with a second team and they didn't managed with first team of Slovakia.
I'm not happy with this decision- it's not fair play at all, but I can compare it to another situation:
Brazil, a year ago was like cheating and shouting at referee
Poland, this year was like don't plead to touch of the ball in the block ?
You know what I mean?
NightFox I said, Nikolov said this to polish journalist, how bulgarian media could have that? Also Volleywood translated it and put in their FB page, check this out.
I shame for what polish team did yesterday. If Anastai want lost faster he could let Zygadlo play btw. At least they don't deny what they did. We can name it in nice way "tactic", but for me it'll be always unfair behave. And it's not truth that they didn't win because Slovakia was to strong. They showed some dramatic skills in 2nd and 4th set and in normal match we've never played so many risk sets.
I am a little happy with what he did yesterday Anastasi. Poland at the World Championships in 2010 had the honor. They are not calculated. They had to play with Bulgaria and Brazil. Let the authorities do an adequate system. I am not angry at Anastasi, I'm angry at the system.
As much as I love this sport and trust me,I do,it's being ruined little by little with every championship,world or continental,doesn't matter...How is it that every other sport has come up with a fair system,but the FIVB guys STILL can't figure out one?!?!Stop taking donations from the federations,stop clearing the way to the semi-finals for the host,put hawk-eye in action...freaking do something and let sport be sport!!!
I think Jarosz deserved some good words in this match. Why am I the only one to say such? It's like when I say Mozdzonek is good and Polish users don't believe me ?
But he is good. He played very well against Poland, extremely well against Netherlands, Korea in WL2010 and Spain in WCH 2010, Russia and Serbia ECH 2009 and the whole World League 2008. He need to learn how to handle the triple block and to stay focused. His reception won't get better, but he must be stable in attack and block
Jakub Jarosz is not good. I already have enough words that he needs a lot of games. The situation balls he is afraid attack strongly. He is often stopped on a single block. Attacking player can not play like this
I will say frankly that Aleksiev for me is the average player. He is not very well received, he does not have a strong and good servers. He is good block and sometimes in the attack.
In a match with the Polish in firts set he played badly but later he played very well in attack and quietly in the receiver.
I know what happened to Jarosz. Maybe I'm not professional player, but I had the same 2 years ago. I don't know why, but I couldn't "find" a good timing in attack. It lasted a few months. I just couldn't attack well. Then it was up and i went back into my normal shape. I think he needed a rest then a play and I think, that in this form he is not useful player.
tysia - we too missing Salparov and N.Nikolov so we're not with full potential too. Mainly Salparov because he is the spirit of the team and have amazing defense.
_k-is-for-kate_,I'm not saying that,but you can't deny it's pretty weird.You're the official sponsor of the championship?!I'm not accusing you of anything,I doubt you gave that idea to your federation( ? ),but it's unfair.You're not hosts,so what's going on?Again,this shouldn't be allowed - FIVB rules are overflowing with sh*t these days.
So, we cannot do anything about all this unfairness and it's all up to the players' performance on the court.
I absolutely agree about the hawk-eye! Why can tennis have this and volleyball can't? And to avoid such stupid calculations after the first round, there should be draw for the 1/8 and 1/4 finals. Thus, teams will play ALWAYS for the win and they won't know who their next opponents will be.
O, and about Aleksiev, I just wonder why he doesn't serve with more force. I am sure he can since I have watched matches where he actually serves much stronger. If he doesn't loose track of the match and keeps a good rhythm from the start, he performs really well. ?
why are you getting so furious about that? i was just asking what was wrong with it.
organization of a tournament of that kind demands lots of money and that our Volleyball Federation have it is not a secret. There's not a word "general sponsor" on those banners, and i don't understand why you think that way.
you may say what you want, but i just got an impression that you go for any extreme and go crazy about every little thing to underline that everyone on EC cheating and being unfair evil, except Bulgaria. First it was Poland, now Russia. What further?
_k-is-for-kate_ ,read my comment again,I'm not furious ? It has nothing to do with Russia or your team.It's all about not giving teams the choice to play fair or not,but to be forced to play with everything they've got in every match,not go to the second round without winning a single set.I don't think Bulgaria is the only team that's not cheating,but instead of people going "Hey,we should do something about that" ,they go for the simple "solution" - "Well,they did it first,f*ck that,now we'll do it".This doesn't solve anything,it's putting a giant stain on our favorite sport and we as fans should not turn on each other,but unite against those money-hungry as*'holes.
And to be correct,the banners say "The Official sponsor of the European championship 2011".As raylight said below,Russia doesn't need money to win matches ?
proud, i meant not you, but SkyloIoannes, who seemed to be touched to heart by my question.
then still, i don't understand your problem with our Federation being one of the sponsors. In what way it prevents any team of playing fair? Why did you ever mentioned that at all? i don't understand your purpose, that's all.
Just read a statement from Nikolov and he says that there's nothing wrong with the Russian federation sponsoring the championship and concurs they don't have to buy their titles,since Russia won the World league two months ago ? I don't know,it might have been a fan overreaction,I just haven't seen such banners at other championships ?
@_k-is-for-kate_I just ask simple question because I'm curious how federation of whoever country can be official sponsor of EC, and you maybe impulsively asked me If I suspect russia buying the tournament... that's ridiculous. That thought has never been on my mind..
Don't put words on my mouth I've never said!
Our Federation usually sponsors many (if not all) competitions, big or small, our teams take part in, because it has money, which countries-orginizers sometimes lack. i see nothing criminal in the fact that thy take expensive banners as you,or your article,or whatever, mentioned.
and taking to account that bulgarian fans always tend to create justifying reasons for their team's troubles(that's an impression you made on me), i assumed this was your another occasion to complain.
whether i were wrong we'll see after our teams face each other on EC. But if i were, i apologize.
We didn't know that.. our journalist are all in yellow! ..nobody pay attention to them. They may be suspecting something, but my question has nothing to do with the articles they've written.
As I see our players didn't know it too, at least Nikolov..
There's nothing wrong with it..you didn't understood me correctly....
As all of us said Russia don't need to buy matches..
You maybe don't know but Russian team is my favorite../after Bulgaria naturally /
That's my last post for that question. Sorry if I offended you somehow..
First,I'm sorry that this is the impression we've made on you(and I know a lot of other people here,too) and I don't mean to get all sentimental on you,but we really love our team.We know we're not Brazil,but the bronze medals we've won over the last 4-5 years have meant a lot to the Bulgarian fans.We're not a rich country - we've never been a host to a big competition,our federation struggles with the fee for the World League every year and as a whole we have very limited financial and human resources.If you ask me,what our guys have done(pretty much all on their own)during this period is like a miracle.So,that's the reason most of us are very easily offended when it comes to them,and people referring to them as "your volleyball gods"(sarcastically) in this forum lately is really hurtful. "We'll see what your team we'll do today,tomorrow,etc."- those are just unnecessarily cruel comments,so naturally some of us get defensive.I don't need them to be first to be proud of them.I would watch the championship even if our team didn't participate,but they do and I can't see what they've done wrong to deserve this kind of attitude from some of you.
Also,it's easy to get mad when you've been screwed so many times,so I'm sorry but I think we/you/everybody are/is obligated to say what's on their mind whenever there's something wrong with the system.Frankly,I'm surprised why so few people are frustrated with that...
I'm not one to make excuses,when we lose I don't blame the ball ? I just want things to be fair for everybody and if we're 15th,then we're 15th - you won't hear me complain about anything,but bad game play ?
You guys are all contradicting yourselfs.
First you say, Russia doesn't need to buy matches since they won the World League.
And then all of a sudden k-is-for-kate states that the Russian federation sponsors all competitions they participate in.
Meaning: the argument that they don't need to buy matches to win cause they won the World League is based on nothing more then mud, since they probably sponsored that too.
Now Im not the one here saying Russia is buying the matches, just stating, the arguments you guys are using are contradictive and not constructive by any means.
So my own standpoint is that I disgust that Russia sponsors these competitions, since it can start a fire that was never intented, like what is happening here. Even for the players of Russia it sucks, since their wins will always be doubted, even if the matches weren't bought and it was just plain sponsoring.
Sad thing is, we will never know for sure, so the doubt goes on.
And most sad of all, these competition would probably not even be held if it wasnt for those sponsors. But that is just how the world is these days.
harleym, i don't know what is there in your mind, but you should somehow learn what the verb "to sponsor" means and the difference between its meaning and meaning of "bribe". google it, buy a dictionary, whatever, i don't know...
proud, thanks for that. i didn't mean to offend anybody, too. sorry, if i did. i was just defending my team's honour.
Bribery, a form of corruption, is an act implying money or gift giving that alters the behavior of the recipient.
Meaning: Giving money so you get something benificial in return
To sponsor something is to support an event, activity, person, or organization financially or through the provision of products or services
Meaning: Giving money to support an event.
Now we all know that the money is being giving, we just don't know the latter.
You try to sound very convinsing k-is-for-kate, but where is you proove that the money is not for bribing.
I mean if you look at the explanation of bribing and sponsoring, it goes hand in hand.
Both is giving money, period.
For a federation to give money to the European Championship is at least questionable until you have prove nothing else is done with it, then just to support the event.
You haven't given me the prove, nor will there ever be any prove since the only prove you will ever have is, they said so. There is not physical evidence of not being bribed, since bribing is persuation that can even be unconscious.
You see where I am getting at?
Federation shouldn't give money to events, since there are for one, doubts of bribing.
Which takes away from the winning of Russia if they actually do win it legitimate.
And two, bribing can be conscious or unconscious. Now lets say I give you money before a match and tell you to still be objective if you are the referee.
You will favor me most likely wether you like it or not.
Getting money from the federation is just not a good thing, wether it is used as real sponsorship and the intentions from the federation are good, it will always raise questions, raise doubts, can influence the recipient party unconsciously.
You don't know that k-is-for-kate, nor can you give me any prove otherwise, but thats obviously not your fault.
Just one quick note: I am discussing not trying to offend anyone
Come on people, let's better turn our minds towards the sport, not the financial, political or any other sides our countries are involved. Some of the conditions might not be optimal, but still I belive nobody will buy matches or anything...I personally have great respect for all the countries that participate, and I do not believe victory is certain against Bulgaria, for example. But I rather see I fair and entertaining match lost by Russia in the quarter or half-final or whatever than some referee tricks in favor of a team... come on people, volleyball should help to unite people from the world, forget all the conflicts, just enjoy tha matches?
Herleym - you also try to argue convincingly and independently, but there is also no way you can prove that bribery actually is taking place...besides, If I would want to bribe, I would definitely not place banners in the front row "I am the official sponsor"... and moreover no one of us will convince the other side in this discussion for sure? Because of that there's not much point in discussing it, I think. At least for us)
oh my god, you really wanna go for arguement? all right then.
of course, i can't actually prove you our federation don't bribe anyone, i'm not the head of federation, nor one of the judges.but following your own reasoning:
1) neither can you prove there WAS bribing, because nobody saw anyone giving bribes, all was there was only sponsoring, or giving money strictly for organization needs
2) if you saw semi-final game Yaroslavich-Zenit of Russian Superleague'11 you would know what "a bought victory" means.
3) you said the World League first place was bought as well...no comments,just wondering if you saw team russia playing that world league.
4) again, following your thoughts, i can accuse any team for bribing as well, because there's no proof they weren't.
Particulary Brazil. There's NO WAY such players as Giba or Endres brothers or coach Rezende had anything to to with winning all those years out! they're secret is defenitely secret bribing. now prove me it's not, can you?
p.s. i don't know why you need to start this. i have suggestions about your type of person, but i prefer not to word it, in order not to be impolite.
i apologize for other users' inconvenience of seeing this rubbish in the topic, but you see, i couldn't ignore such hilarious attempt of attacking my team's honour. i promise not to keep on arguing with this ridiculously stubborn person.
Why the hell did they change the timetable of the matches??
And in a stupid way!! Finland-Slovenia will play this evening and tomorrow at 16 (not at 19 how it was decided before), and Turkey-France are playing now and will play tomorrow at 19 (not at 16). It is logical??!!! Why a team will have more than 24h between the match, while the other one not even 20h?! I don't understand that O.o
And I'm also quite upset because I organized to see italian match with few friends and now they change the timetable=.= uff..
BTW, Estonia is making a mess on second touch not made by setter... often when they defend they aren't able to build the action properly, to set the ball in a way that allowed the spiker to attack.
In Bulgaria the police was sponsored by business groups and the Euro commission said that this is form of corruption, because in this way the sponsors can use the police to avoid parking tickets, so they had to stop. It is good that Russia helps for these events, but iit is sad in the same time that this money are important as harleym said.
Thank you, Chrison, you are the beast ?
P.S. I have uploaded Bulgaria - Germany, to say it while you are in good mood ?
So, say it again... is Aleksiev good?...
Тоя ще ни вкара в кривата пътека.. казвам ви. Голяма излагация е..
Не можем да разчитаме -" днеска му е ден, утре не е".. абе като не е сигурен ВЪН от националния... В някъв мач - тренировка оня ми прави гршка след грешка.. утре ще се осере, ама язък, че няма кой да го замести..
I didn't want to say anything before the game,but I was really nervous for that match.I have no memories of us playing against Estonia and knew they had nothing to lose,so they'd play at a 100% and that's always dangerous.I didn't like how we played and I hope that the guys were still getting used to the arena or were nervous 'cause everybody expected a win,but that wasn't beautiful volleyball...Anyway,it's a win,so I'm putting on my happy face ?
During the national anthem of Estonia I noticed that the guy's jerseys were really worn out and that reminded me of a few years ago,when we would be playing against someone and I'd see their shiny new t-shirts and I couldn't read "asics" on ours...So hats off to Estonia's team for their heart and devotion to their country.That's what sport is all about to me,you win when you can,you beat whoever you can,isn't that why there are so many championships every year(I count clubs,too)? ? Nothing else should be involved,like politics or money - sport is not a beauty pageant ? (Though,who would win if it was? LOL )
Hanes,I hope you liked your team's performance ?
Kate,you have never offended me ?
Harleym,you're bringing up some very valid points.
Offtopic : Cher during the time out,that was...new ?
Алексиев играе добре срещу Русия, поне в последните години. Скримов има нужда да играе повече, тази година в Париж му беше първа като титуляр, има подобрява мощта в атака и посрещането, на сервис и защита е много добър
@spiridoncheto Well, I'm not sure when Aleksiev is concentrated and when not, because I've seen him playing just awful in very important matches..
/Сори, че пиша на английски, ама да не си помислят нещо/
Прави грешна топка и почва да псува, след което тотално изчезва от терена..
Много ми харесва начина по който Радо не цепи басма на никого.
Не играеш добре, вън!.. Не се колебае.. а Скримов, ми той няма много време да си показва качествата.. не му дават много шанс да играе, а и е наистина доста нисък... доста!
Let me clear this up FAST.
Quote me where I said it is was bribing.
I only said, there could be a suspicion of bribing and so it is wrong.
It is wrong for a federation to give money, wether you like it or not.
It adds suspicion. So I'd rather see commercial sponsors.
This is a quote from k-is-for-kate however:
"Our Federation usually sponsors many (if not all) competitions, big or small, our teams take part in, because it has money, which countries-orginizers sometimes lack"
So how am I not to argue aganist that?
How are people saying I have to prove anything?
I am not the one stating it is just a sponsor, without any prove.
Like I said, I am not the one saying it is bribing either, just that I don't like that the federation is giving money.
You see it there? That is my opinion. Just as I have the opinion that giving money could unconsiously give somebody an advantage. That is just my opinion.
I am not argueing the intention of the Russian Federation cause I have no prove of that, so why are you guys trying to pinpoint that on me?
I am just against it, wether it is a legitimate sponsor deal or bribing.
I am entitled to that opinion and so all you guys should learn, that this is a discussion and stop being so offended please.
I am not gonna state my argument again cause I made it and it is up to you guys wether you guys argue against the moral issue or not.
The true interest I have in this discussion is the moral issue and it is there I believe.
So move away from the prove part, I only started that discussion cause k-is-for-kate, tries to defend a fact, which means you have to defend that with prove, since, well it should be a fact otherwise you can't really defend it right.
What I am trying to defend though is my opinion:
The opinion that Federations shouldnt sponsor since it could add rumours about bribing, unconcious bribing, and so could either give an advantage to Russia or could add negativity if itis a legitmate win.
(Not trying to argue its bribing, just my opinion on what if a Federation would give money to an event it participates in by itself)
Let's not be too harsh on Aleksiev. Everyone knows he is not the best of receivers but his attack and block are really good. Today Matey was again in great form! Estonia also played well, I have to admit I did not know anything about them. We should be content, we go on, that was our goal. ?
Women Volleybox
Beach Volleybox
good idea, do it now, as I guess u won't have a chance on sunday.
overlook
excuse me, did I miss something? did Anastasi hurt Zibi during F8? I saw that match live and I haven't seen Anastasi on court behind Bartman when this happened. Is Anastasi's fault we are so retarded that we focused on one player, who played actually only three full seasons in NT, but we still count on him, and didn't train another opposite? Even Serbia, who has Miljkovic, the best opposite give him some rest on WL to train new opposites as they know they will be f*cked if they would not let Starovic or Atansijevic some experience until Ivan will decide to retiring.
Poza tym nie czytałeś/łaś o zaległościach na siłowni Fabiana? Nie pomyślałeś/łaś, że to jest powód dla którego Janeczek też wtedy przed LŚ wypadł? Ja uważam Zibiego na prawym za świetny pomysł i bo akiej siły ognia nie gwarantuje nam póki co ani Jarosz, ani Janeczek, ani Konarski. Wystarczy, że Zib jeszcze potrenuje w kadrze na tej pozycji i jest ok.
Poza tym przykład: Nowakowski gra w kadrze od dwóch lat, a cwaniactwa i doświadczenia jak nie używał, tak nie używa, Żekow kiwał ich jak chciał, a wybitnym sypaczem nie jest. Skąd więc pewność, że oni daliby więcej?
Jeśli AA jest taki beznadziejny, to może wróćmy do DC? Wtedy to już w ogóle będzie cacy.
A jeśli chodzi o cwaniactwo to z tym się trzeba raczej urodzić, np Kubiak.
NightFox Съжалявам, oioi започна на полски език ?[is it correct?]
Почти няма вариант да НЕ сме втори, те поляците ще играят игрички... Ако нашия мач беше след техния щеше да е друго.
К'во да прайм ся... к'вото дойде таквоз.. пък и що да не одъним Русия. ?
Guys sorry for our personal, inside discussion. You can pass over that?
zver: volleyball is "game of mistakes", we made them more that our opponents, so we lost.
zyta: I also think that AA made good thing with Bartman change to opposite, that's great idea. I have big respect for Gruszka too, but account he's after injury and his age it was obvious that he'll be need change. You have some rational arguments about Jarosz (that explain why for example Kłos is in NT), but don't you think that the most important is level of the game. He played good in one match so far (WL, Memorial and ECH), how long we must wait for him? Say about his good single actions shows that something's wrong. And it's AA fault that he didn't prepare other option, like oioi wrote.
We don't need fresh blood yet. We need Wlazły to change his behaviour. I don't want to start another discussion about him, but the fact is we have world-class player, but he don't want to sacrifice for our NT.
And another fact is, that we have most lacks on positions, where play our absent players. Only Winiarski wouldn't be as necessary as other, because of Kubiak ?
Nie wiem co SkyloIoannes miała na myśli, ale nie używajcie lepiej google translate:
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6167/screenha.jpg
He is talkin shits in all the videos and forums about Bulgaria..
A, więc to nie przypadek. Przetłumaczcie sobie komentarz Pstul na Polski. Chyba lepiej usunąć takie komentarze z dyskusji.
He knows bulgarian perfect I'm sure.
He is parasite spaming on bulgarian videos. He should have ban.
BTW, Compliments to Bulgarian for the victory.
I'm surprised that Estonia won 3-0 over Portugal and Finland 3-0 over Belgium, I didn't expect that. I thought Belgium would have taken at least one point in this match.
And Slovenia almost risk to be third!
So, I checked that Belgium is probably out. Only if we will win 3-0 Belgium will have a chance to pass (with the point ratio), I guess (now france has 4 sets won and 4 lost, Belgium 4 sets won and 7 lost). And that will hardly happen. Poor Belgium, I apreciated that they won vs France...
Bye, Italian match is starting!
28% in reception and like 35% in attack O_O
No surprise at all ?
?DDDDDDDDDD
Samueleke, Italy won the first set 28:26, the second 25:22 and now 11:16 for France
But seems hard Italy will won this third set. 15-23. We lost our mind a bit.
If France will win the set they'lle be second.
And Italy will face one between Finland and Slovenia.
raylight, with poland he did this first time ?
and today in match pol-svk Michał Ruciak scored point like this
https://volleybox.net/giba-funny-point-m629
;d
and raylight, if somebody solds matches, its Rezende or Bagnoli. in wch 2010 Anastasi wanted to win all matches...
Last year he had to replace Poey when he leftand he did a good work, you could seem he care a lot of the team and trys to do his best, often he scored more than 20. But the problem is that he often made mistake in the most important moments... Or more errors in a row.
Surprise for me, but Italy gets the first place in their pool anyway so no harm done.
raylight, also Mateusz Mika played nice(18 pts, Jarosz - 26), he will be good player in the future, but in this match he made tooooo many mistakes.
Anastazi ready to s*ck only not facing big teams. Honor and respect for Bulgaria for playing honest and not being clowns.
I think Czech will defeat Poland in 1/8 final as hosts.
Nothing personal but I'm sick of schemes and loosers for purpose..
Today Poland prove they are not good enough to defeat big teams.
Don't you remember your team in WC'10 in match BRA - BUL? Your team played in the basic composition? No, you played yours subs players, just like my team today.
And your play with the second sqaud was only being in the field. Nothing else..
Yesterday Stoytchev said : We'll play for the win because that is the purpose of the game.
Anastazi answered the question "will you let Slovakia beat you" with "I won't say you".
See the difference between the loosers and lions now?
And be sure we're not afraid from Russia even knowing they will probably beat us.
When coming home fans will say "good job, even not being champions you play fair game"
What you'll say to your team? "Good job, nice lost."
Interesting.
hope to see you again in semi-final(ohh, sorry i forgot that you play with Russia and we won't meet there?.
"Good job, nice lost." I could tell your team exactly the same the year ago.
The difference is that you didn't lost? It's not argument at all. With Brazil plays like that, even the second Kameroon team would win with they.
I'll tell it again, you are the same loosers like we are.
And I'm sorry you are the unluckiest one, but someone HAS to face Russia in the quarter! You can't always blame the formula... calculation will be always possible, unless they won't mix the games casually after the pool, "sorting" the matching (is it the right world? I mean, like for the numbers of lottery..). Or unless they won't make a rank of the 4 team second classificated in the pools and give to the better second qualificated the worst third and so on.
BTW, if there's a team that can beat Russia, it's Bulgaria ?
About Italy... horrible 3rd, 4th, expecially 5th set. in th tie break 23% in attack=3 points. this is ridicoulus.
I hate that when we don't need to won anymore, we can keep focusing and fighting for one set and then we collapse. It seems to me a scenario too much similar to the end of the international tournament in WL: we needed two set vs Cuba in the second last game, we took its, and after we took also the third set (and the match) also with a nice come back. And the day after, 3 sets lost in a row. And then, losing vs Argentina at the final eight.
Now, we needed one set for being the first. We took it. Then we took also the second, and again with a nice come back. And after, 3 sets lost in a row. And then... Well, in the quarter we have only one option.
I was so proud after the first two set, now I'm quite disappointed. Hope it won't be a deja vù.
BTW, I'm so glad Parodi had the chance to play and being really useful for the team.
So don't call us loosers now. You wanted to loose last year, we wanted this year. It's clear. Also Slovakia defeated you, Germans and who knows if they wouldn't beat our first squad if we've lost with you?
Besides, c'mon, you have Ananiev, didn't raylight said with Ananiev in good form he can beat Russia by himself? So what's the problem?
KK15, we can always blame the formula, because if you were at my place last year, when your team didn't deserve at all to be at the Final 4, you would tell the same. Last year the formula was made for Italy. This year it's not but it's still fuck*d up because it is not normal one team to play 3 ours early than another at the last round of the group stage. For that purpose the English Premier League makes all matches in the last round at the same time ... And the formula is not good at all . It must be 1st against the 2nd and then the lottery.
If you are in the condition to wait for someone else to "give you the spot", you can blame only your self. You can't say "for their fault I'm not there", because reaching a goal is smth that has to be up to you, and you only. Expecially if "you" is Bulgaria. If you can't obtain it by yourself, you can hope that other teams will make certain result, but if it won't go as you hope, you can't blame nobody exept you.
Notice that this comment doesn't mean I agree with "chosing the easier way", because I don't agree ?
And I also think that if a team is sure to have reach the first place in a pool (like Argentina in final8, for example), it's their right to rest the titoulars if they need it. That doesn't mean that they have to lose, that means the subs have to do whatever in their power to win, using the chance to show their value as well as possible.
I hope you understand what I meant..
Today your team new, that for 99% they will get second place in group, so the best way was just win and then talking about themselves as a heroes. They are smarter than last year.
I agree that the formula was easier for us in the first two pool, but to get the semis we beat USA, Olympic champions, so it's true that we had an easier way to Rome, but not an easy way the the semis! if we managed to win the third pool it's thanks to ourself (I don't mention France because they were without proper opposite and N'gapeth when we face them).
Brazil had Czech and Germany, if I'm not wrong! Don't tell me this pool was harder than our!
And if you check who had to face Russia in the first two pool, you'lle see they didn't had strong pools. They 'only' had to beat Serbia (as we 'only' had to beat USA), but they didn't. Russia was stronger than Italy, but they wasted the chance to proove it. That doesn't mean we deserve the 4th place the less.
Zyta, tell me who of our players said something about your lost of Slovakia ? They just said before the match that they will play for the win and they're not scared to face Russia. So respect our team as we respect yours . I didn't say that if we were at your place we won't do the same, and I'm not misguided to think that ... no ...
It wasn't hard to win, when the setter in Brazil was THEO! and they play at 5 % of their skill's, LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a hypocrite?
and FTW main players? are you kidding me?
yes, we felt it in last year, at world championships....
Matey Kaziyski failed to save Bulgaria against Slovakia on Saturday, but showed that the messengers of his balls are dangerous for everyone. Already in the first minutes of the match against the Slovaks Kaziyski that day sent a ball directly into the laptop the federation public relations worker Maria Dzherekarova. Laptop, of course, was broken after the powerful punch.
This was not the first laptop that falls victim to Bulgarians at the EC. Prior to that, and they broke the computer of the Italian statistician Mateo Lavrato during exercise. Laptop suffer from the rebound ball headquarters team immediately brought him to repair.
I agree with you about the formula in the last WC: It was clearly made by our federation to make our team get as far as possible. But that is a part of the game nowadays. The FIVB (or CEV aswell) lets you hold the event, and since this involves costs/problems of various kinds to the organizers, they gave them some (questionable in my opinion) "advantages" as creating the match schedule is.
"Theoretically, if you want to adjust the opponent had to lose 0:3.We didn't do it because it's not my understanding of the sport. I can not go to the team and say 'Guys, you need to lose" ...
I'm not happy with this decision- it's not fair play at all, but I can compare it to another situation:
Brazil, a year ago was like cheating and shouting at referee
Poland, this year was like don't plead to touch of the ball in the block ?
You know what I mean?
Тhe title is "I knew that Poland will let Slovakia defeat them"
It's the whole interview to Poland telegraph agency.
"Zibi" Bartman is Injury
Gruszka is Ijury
and isn't Wlazły
We haven't attack ?
I will say frankly that Aleksiev for me is the average player. He is not very well received, he does not have a strong and good servers. He is good block and sometimes in the attack.
In a match with the Polish in firts set he played badly but later he played very well in attack and quietly in the receiver.
so what? you suspect we bought the whole tournament out?
I hadn't said anything like that...
I'm just wondering how federation can be sponsor of EC.
I absolutely agree about the hawk-eye! Why can tennis have this and volleyball can't? And to avoid such stupid calculations after the first round, there should be draw for the 1/8 and 1/4 finals. Thus, teams will play ALWAYS for the win and they won't know who their next opponents will be.
organization of a tournament of that kind demands lots of money and that our Volleyball Federation have it is not a secret. There's not a word "general sponsor" on those banners, and i don't understand why you think that way.
you may say what you want, but i just got an impression that you go for any extreme and go crazy about every little thing to underline that everyone on EC cheating and being unfair evil, except Bulgaria. First it was Poland, now Russia. What further?
And to be correct,the banners say "The Official sponsor of the European championship 2011".As raylight said below,Russia doesn't need money to win matches ?
then still, i don't understand your problem with our Federation being one of the sponsors. In what way it prevents any team of playing fair? Why did you ever mentioned that at all? i don't understand your purpose, that's all.
Don't put words on my mouth I've never said!
and taking to account that bulgarian fans always tend to create justifying reasons for their team's troubles(that's an impression you made on me), i assumed this was your another occasion to complain.
whether i were wrong we'll see after our teams face each other on EC. But if i were, i apologize.
As I see our players didn't know it too, at least Nikolov..
There's nothing wrong with it..you didn't understood me correctly....
As all of us said Russia don't need to buy matches..
You maybe don't know but Russian team is my favorite../after Bulgaria naturally /
That's my last post for that question. Sorry if I offended you somehow..
Also,it's easy to get mad when you've been screwed so many times,so I'm sorry but I think we/you/everybody are/is obligated to say what's on their mind whenever there's something wrong with the system.Frankly,I'm surprised why so few people are frustrated with that...
I'm not one to make excuses,when we lose I don't blame the ball ? I just want things to be fair for everybody and if we're 15th,then we're 15th - you won't hear me complain about anything,but bad game play ?
First you say, Russia doesn't need to buy matches since they won the World League.
And then all of a sudden k-is-for-kate states that the Russian federation sponsors all competitions they participate in.
Meaning: the argument that they don't need to buy matches to win cause they won the World League is based on nothing more then mud, since they probably sponsored that too.
Now Im not the one here saying Russia is buying the matches, just stating, the arguments you guys are using are contradictive and not constructive by any means.
So my own standpoint is that I disgust that Russia sponsors these competitions, since it can start a fire that was never intented, like what is happening here. Even for the players of Russia it sucks, since their wins will always be doubted, even if the matches weren't bought and it was just plain sponsoring.
Sad thing is, we will never know for sure, so the doubt goes on.
And most sad of all, these competition would probably not even be held if it wasnt for those sponsors. But that is just how the world is these days.
proud, thanks for that. i didn't mean to offend anybody, too. sorry, if i did. i was just defending my team's honour.
Meaning: Giving money so you get something benificial in return
To sponsor something is to support an event, activity, person, or organization financially or through the provision of products or services
Meaning: Giving money to support an event.
Now we all know that the money is being giving, we just don't know the latter.
You try to sound very convinsing k-is-for-kate, but where is you proove that the money is not for bribing.
I mean if you look at the explanation of bribing and sponsoring, it goes hand in hand.
Both is giving money, period.
For a federation to give money to the European Championship is at least questionable until you have prove nothing else is done with it, then just to support the event.
You haven't given me the prove, nor will there ever be any prove since the only prove you will ever have is, they said so. There is not physical evidence of not being bribed, since bribing is persuation that can even be unconscious.
You see where I am getting at?
Federation shouldn't give money to events, since there are for one, doubts of bribing.
Which takes away from the winning of Russia if they actually do win it legitimate.
And two, bribing can be conscious or unconscious. Now lets say I give you money before a match and tell you to still be objective if you are the referee.
You will favor me most likely wether you like it or not.
Getting money from the federation is just not a good thing, wether it is used as real sponsorship and the intentions from the federation are good, it will always raise questions, raise doubts, can influence the recipient party unconsciously.
You don't know that k-is-for-kate, nor can you give me any prove otherwise, but thats obviously not your fault.
Just one quick note: I am discussing not trying to offend anyone
of course, i can't actually prove you our federation don't bribe anyone, i'm not the head of federation, nor one of the judges.but following your own reasoning:
1) neither can you prove there WAS bribing, because nobody saw anyone giving bribes, all was there was only sponsoring, or giving money strictly for organization needs
2) if you saw semi-final game Yaroslavich-Zenit of Russian Superleague'11 you would know what "a bought victory" means.
3) you said the World League first place was bought as well...no comments,just wondering if you saw team russia playing that world league.
4) again, following your thoughts, i can accuse any team for bribing as well, because there's no proof they weren't.
Particulary Brazil. There's NO WAY such players as Giba or Endres brothers or coach Rezende had anything to to with winning all those years out! they're secret is defenitely secret bribing. now prove me it's not, can you?
p.s. i don't know why you need to start this. i have suggestions about your type of person, but i prefer not to word it, in order not to be impolite.
i apologize for other users' inconvenience of seeing this rubbish in the topic, but you see, i couldn't ignore such hilarious attempt of attacking my team's honour. i promise not to keep on arguing with this ridiculously stubborn person.
cheers everybody, good EC for you)
but our attack is at level 0
And in a stupid way!! Finland-Slovenia will play this evening and tomorrow at 16 (not at 19 how it was decided before), and Turkey-France are playing now and will play tomorrow at 19 (not at 16). It is logical??!!! Why a team will have more than 24h between the match, while the other one not even 20h?! I don't understand that O.o
And I'm also quite upset because I organized to see italian match with few friends and now they change the timetable=.= uff..
Thank you, Chrison, you are the beast ?
P.S. I have uploaded Bulgaria - Germany, to say it while you are in good mood ?
Тоя ще ни вкара в кривата пътека.. казвам ви. Голяма излагация е..
Не можем да разчитаме -" днеска му е ден, утре не е".. абе като не е сигурен ВЪН от националния... В някъв мач - тренировка оня ми прави гршка след грешка.. утре ще се осере, ама язък, че няма кой да го замести..
During the national anthem of Estonia I noticed that the guy's jerseys were really worn out and that reminded me of a few years ago,when we would be playing against someone and I'd see their shiny new t-shirts and I couldn't read "asics" on ours...So hats off to Estonia's team for their heart and devotion to their country.That's what sport is all about to me,you win when you can,you beat whoever you can,isn't that why there are so many championships every year(I count clubs,too)? ? Nothing else should be involved,like politics or money - sport is not a beauty pageant ? (Though,who would win if it was? LOL )
Hanes,I hope you liked your team's performance ?
Kate,you have never offended me ?
Harleym,you're bringing up some very valid points.
Offtopic : Cher during the time out,that was...new ?
/Сори, че пиша на английски, ама да не си помислят нещо/
Прави грешна топка и почва да псува, след което тотално изчезва от терена..
Много ми харесва начина по който Радо не цепи басма на никого.
Не играеш добре, вън!.. Не се колебае.. а Скримов, ми той няма много време да си показва качествата.. не му дават много шанс да играе, а и е наистина доста нисък... доста!
http://bgvolleyball.com/files/volleyball/stats/7661.pdf
Quote me where I said it is was bribing.
I only said, there could be a suspicion of bribing and so it is wrong.
It is wrong for a federation to give money, wether you like it or not.
It adds suspicion. So I'd rather see commercial sponsors.
This is a quote from k-is-for-kate however:
"Our Federation usually sponsors many (if not all) competitions, big or small, our teams take part in, because it has money, which countries-orginizers sometimes lack"
So how am I not to argue aganist that?
How are people saying I have to prove anything?
I am not the one stating it is just a sponsor, without any prove.
Like I said, I am not the one saying it is bribing either, just that I don't like that the federation is giving money.
You see it there? That is my opinion. Just as I have the opinion that giving money could unconsiously give somebody an advantage. That is just my opinion.
I am not argueing the intention of the Russian Federation cause I have no prove of that, so why are you guys trying to pinpoint that on me?
I am just against it, wether it is a legitimate sponsor deal or bribing.
I am entitled to that opinion and so all you guys should learn, that this is a discussion and stop being so offended please.
I am not gonna state my argument again cause I made it and it is up to you guys wether you guys argue against the moral issue or not.
The true interest I have in this discussion is the moral issue and it is there I believe.
So move away from the prove part, I only started that discussion cause k-is-for-kate, tries to defend a fact, which means you have to defend that with prove, since, well it should be a fact otherwise you can't really defend it right.
What I am trying to defend though is my opinion:
The opinion that Federations shouldnt sponsor since it could add rumours about bribing, unconcious bribing, and so could either give an advantage to Russia or could add negativity if itis a legitmate win.
(Not trying to argue its bribing, just my opinion on what if a Federation would give money to an event it participates in by itself)
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